texturing a print

[archer]

I received a request for a linen canvas textured portrait. Is there a way to texture a wet print through the use of a screen placed in contact with the damp emulsion and then placed in a dry mount press under pressure and low heat until the print dries? I seem to remember that some photofinishers used to provide texturing during the drymounting of some color prints and just wonder if there are texturing screens that could be used on fiber based gelatin surfaces.
Denise Libby

 

[Rich Ullsmith]

Hi Denise. I have found that with very heavy based fiber papers, if they have have been soaking for many hours, when sqeeged and placed face down on a screen to dry, it will pick up the pattern. For this reason, I don't place them face down anymore. I don't know if you can get consistent results doing this.

Perhaps if you were to go with this face-down drying cycle a few times, it would mimic a canvas appearance. I am just speculating here. Maybe give it a go with an old print.

 

[A49]

I know there has been photo canvas which could be processed as normal fb paper. Just canvas as the carrier and not paper. I don´t know if something like this still exists.

If drymount screens worked with colour paper (I think it must have been the former fb colour papers from the sevenites) then they should also work with fb paper.

Best,
Andreas

 

[tomalophicon]

You could coat some canvas with liquid emulsion.

 

[Ole]

I received a request for a linen canvas textured portrait. Is there a way to texture a wet print through the use of a screen placed in contact with the damp emulsion and then placed in a dry mount press under pressure and low heat until the print dries? I seem to remember that some photofinishers used to provide texturing during the drymounting of some color prints and just wonder if there are texturing screens that could be used on fiber based gelatin surfaces.
Denise Libby

Well yes, that is the way to do it. What was the question again? Why don't you try it?

 

[keithwms]

Texturing a print strikes me as a bit of a cheat, to be honest. As tomalophicon noted, you can simply coat canvas and deliver the real thing

 

[removed account4]

when a fiber print is still wet
you can use a brayer or even a rolling pin
and roll something on the print to distress
and texturize the surface of the print.

if you can make an internegative ( paper print )
the same size as the surface you want to print on
you can concoct a sun printing emulsion and paint it on a canvas
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
it is the pdf file called "print pictures" ...
it is slow and uses egg whites ...
or you can paint cyanotype emulsion and bleach it back with washing soda
so it isn't blue ...

have fun !
john

 

[2F/2F]

The way I have seen it done is by pressing/gluing a print onto the canvas. I have seen this done with inkjet paper, from a digital copy that I made of an oil painting. They must have used a special paper to do it, otherwise I do not think the pattern of the canvas would have made it through as sharply. The place that did it is right down the street from me. Where are you located?

 

[archer]

I found a texturing machine that uses templates that mimic various surfaces and can be used on BW fiber based paper and it is only $4900 and the templates for the different surfaces average $175 for 16X20 sizes. The texturing is done on a dry print under 2500 lb of pressure and the company selling the machine also texturizes prints for a fee. Good Lord. I remember when Kodak and Ansco had more than thirty surfaces and if you wanted a canvas surface you used an X surface in Ektalure, Opal, Indiatone or Cykora and I'm sure there were others and there was even Photo Linen. Oh well I mustn't dwell on the past. I guess I'll just experiment myself, however I must say I hate textured surfaces on photographs and am not a fan of trying to make a photograph look like a painting or at the least a fuzzy twirly dream in sepia. There I've said it. Sorry to all my Pictorialist friends.
Denise Libby

 

[Marcus K]

Denise, what is the name of the company that you say will texture prints for a fee? I'm interested because I love old textured prints.

 

[archer]

Dear Marcus K;
Here is a link to the company called Merit-Tex. www.merit-tex.com
Denise Libby

 

[tomalophicon]

There is also a Slavich paper that is textured. It's meant to be like silk though, not canvas.
I think it's Bromaportrait.

 

[Ian Grant]

If the client wants a print damaged by texturing what about the usual heat sealing approach where the texture is then embossed into the plastic surface. It's easy all you need is a dry mounting press.

Ian

 

[richard ide]

AFAIK some texturing is done by laminating the print; then removing the paper back and mounting the result on a textured surface.. I know this works with bond type papers. Photographic papers are much higher quality and different structural characteristics, so this process may not work.

 

[Marco B]

I received a request for a linen canvas textured portrait.

"Oh the wrath of Photoshop..." David Griffin, photo director for National Geographic

Do we now also have to replicate d*****l printing technics to even sell a photo?

Nobody in his right mind would have asked for a canvas textured picture 10 years ago... anyway, for a fun but experimental option, the liquid emulsion suggestion by tomalophicon is a possibility.

 

[removed account4]

print mount does what is called canvas transfer.
it is sort of what ian and richard describe.

http://printmount.com/ct.htm

i have seen some of these at their shop,
they were beautiful.

 

[jeff.blackwell]

lacquer matt products

A company called lacquer matt made aerisol sprays that provide several surfaces, including sprays that retain brush strokes for a painterly look. They also provide a degree of UV protection and would probably make a great finishing touch on a liquid emulsion print on canvas. These sprays were available through OmegaSatter, and may still be available through OmegaBrandess now that they've merged.

 

[archer]

I called my client today and asked why she wanted the canvas texture for her portrait. As her sitting isn't for another three weeks, I thought I might dissuade her. The reason she gave was very telling. I always inform my clients that I will not retouch a portrait for vanity's sake but will for obvious scarring and of course to correct defects such as port wine and disease related pock marks etc. Her concern was the uneveness of her complexion and she thought the canvas texture would help disguise it. I informed her that I always have a make up artist on staff and all retouching is done before the photography. She laughed and breathed a great sigh of relief and said that she really disliked textured photographs too. The moral is, a little communication, an informed client and a willingness to listen, will resolve almost any difficulty.
Denise Libby

 

[keithwms]

The moral is, a little communication, an informed client and a willingness to listen, will resolve almost any difficulty.

Isn't that the truth!!!

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

paint cyanotype emulsion and bleach it back with washing soda so it isn't blue

After that it needs to be 'toned' in tannic acid (or the tea of your choice). It is said than tannin toned 'types will fade/revert to blue/turn into pumpkins but I had one stapled to the railing on the back deck for an entire summer with no ill effects. Cyanotypes are one of the most archival processes as the image is made of Prussian Blue pigment.

 

[Marco B]

After that it needs to be 'toned' in tannic acid (or the tea of your choice). It is said than tannin toned 'types will fade/revert to blue/turn into pumpkins but I had one stapled to the railing on the back deck for an entire summer with no ill effects. Cyanotypes are one of the most archival processes as the image is made of Prussian Blue pigment.

This is most likely not, or only partially, true.

The first time I read about the tea-toning cyanotypes, I assumed the toning action was solely depended on brown organic "pigments" or compounds of the tea staining the paper as a kind of "brown dye" or watercolor paint. These compounds are probably not terribly light fast, and might fade. So for this part of the toning effect, yes, I can imagine a partial "reversal" of the toning action.

However, since than, I have understood that a large part of the toning action on cyanotypes of tannin and tannin from tea, is actually a true chemical reaction involving the prussian blue pigment and the gallotannic acid, resulting in a new very light fast pigment: called ferrogallotanate or ferric pyrogallate. This is what tea-toned cyanotypes gives their unique colors. It is the same pigment that is formed when making iron-gall ink, a centuries old pigment used as a normal writing ink. As one website writes:

"Iron-gall ink was the most important ink in Western history. Leonardo da Vinci wrote his notes using iron-gall ink. Bach composed with it. Rembrandt and Van Gogh drew with it. The Constitution of the United States was drafted with it (Ink Corrosion). And, when the black ink on the Dead Sea Scrolls was analyzed using a cyclotron at the Davis campus of the University of California, it was found to be iron-gall ink (Nir-el 157)."

So, in effect, if properly and fully toned, there is no prussian blue pigment left in the cyanotype, and we might better speak of a "ferrogallotannato-type"

Actually, iron gall ink is associated with "ink-corrosion" of papers, where the ink "eats" through the paper, leading to its ultimate destruction. However, this big problem in paper conservation of historic documents is associated with unbalanced, not properly created inks.

Actually, although both iron-gall ink and tea-toned cyanotypes contain the same pigments, the mechanism and chemical reactions by which the pigment is created is different, and the "ink corrosion" problem associated with ink is most likely not an issue associated with tea/tannine-toned cyanotypes. Most importantly, tea-toning cyanotypes does not involve the use of iron (II) sulfate, which seems to be the main culprit in the "ink corrosion" problems.