Tetenal's Innovation for the future

fs999 · Sep 4, 2020

On Tetenal's site they announce the future : The developer chemicals in tablet form.

An effervescent tablet form of E6 and C41 developer chemicals would have many advantages. First of all, a tablet has an almost unlimited shelf life and requires extremely little storage space.

For home users with small darkrooms, this would alleviate storage space problems and eliminate wasted liquid chemicals that had "gone badly" between the development of one batch of films and the next. Most photographers now order online instead of trotting into their local store, and tablets have the advantage that they can ship much more cost-effectively.

For fans of mobile lab development boxes, what better way to bring your developer! Simply add water on site, no measurement of various components or worry about leaks along the way. In terms of environmental policy, the tablets would also be more responsible, as they reduce both the ship's space/weight and waste chemicals.

What do you think about it ?

railwayman3 · Sep 4, 2020

Some interesting things on their website. I'd definitely consider tablet chemicals (like the old Burroughs Welcome "Tabloid" products, though these were well before my time!). I might have expected that Tetenal would have come up with B&W chemicals as tablets, but E6 or C41 would be quite an achievement ?

Helge · Sep 4, 2020

Seems very sensible.
Even though I prefer liquid from a pure usability standpoint. From a keepability and economic standpoint this makes a lot of sense.
It will also be incredibly much easier to ship.
Looking forward to seeing what they will bring out.
We’ll just have to get really good at mixing the dilution.

halfaman · Sep 4, 2020

Google translator says nothing about being effervescent, just tablets. It is really an old solution that some minilab processors used and Tetenal has manuctured them in their professional line.

Can be very nice for amateurs but I don't know if this is what Tetenal needs to stabilize the business...

fs999 · Sep 4, 2020

halfaman said:
Google translator says nothing about being effervescent

On the upper right you can switch from German to English.

pentaxuser · Sep 4, 2020

Thanks for posting I am a low volume user of most film but especially C41 and this is a dream come true for me. Unless each tablet works out to cost a king's ransom I will certainly switch to these once I use my Digibase kit as I know when I open the kit the old doubts of being able to use it up quickly enough will arise

It is your thread but may I suggest that as things stand the title may not attract attention from as many people as it should. This is about a revived innovation in that it revolves around the innovation rather than Tetenal's future and the nature of the innovation needs to be in the title in my opinion

pentaxuser

Donald Qualls · Sep 4, 2020

Cinestill has been selling their Cs41 kit in dry chemical form for a while; I have one on hand as backup to my (getting a little old) working kit. Dry E-6 doesn't seem a much bigger step; it's a dry B&W (first developer) and a dry color kit.

Getting everything concentrated enough to be able to us a single tablet for a one-roll batch seems like the main challenge, plus getting everything to dissolve rapidly and completely (not to mention -- if you're doing 120, do you have to use two tablets for a single roll?). For fixer, especially, I don't see 60g of thiosulfate plus the ammonium additive to make it "rapid" fitting in a tablet of reasonable size (size of a toilet tank cleaner tablet?), so I'd presume they're using a thiocyanate based fixer. A phenidone/ascorbate developer, at least, ought to fit nicely, though.

fs999 · Sep 4, 2020

pentaxuser said:
Thanks for posting I am a low volume user of most film but especially C41 and this is a dream come true for me. Unless each tablet works out to cost a king's ransom I will certainly switch to these once I use my Digibase kit as I know when I open the kit the old doubts of being able to use it up quickly enough will arise

Yeah same problem here with E6, especially there are no more 1L kits...

pentaxuser said:
It is your thread but may I suggest that as things stand the title may not attract attention from as many people as it should. This is about a revived innovation in that it revolves around the innovation rather than Tetenal's future and the nature of the innovation needs to be in the title in my opinion

I agree and changed the title

Donald Qualls said:
Getting everything concentrated enough to be able to us a single tablet for a one-roll batch seems like the main challenge, plus getting everything to dissolve rapidly and completely (not to mention -- if you're doing 120, do you have to use two tablets for a single roll?). For fixer, especially, I don't see 60g of thiosulfate plus the ammonium additive to make it "rapid" fitting in a tablet of reasonable size (size of a toilet tank cleaner tablet?), so I'd presume they're using a thiocyanate based fixer. A phenidone/ascorbate developer, at least, ought to fit nicely, though.

Perhaps they will concentrate on the most volatile or fastest oxygenating : first, second (for E6) and bleach...

pentaxuser · Sep 4, 2020

I have now looked at the site and was a bit disappointed not to see more evidence of intention. When you boil it down it looks like an aspiration rather than an already-decided move but unless there will shortly be a statement of intent at least then it could so easily look like just a tease,. In terms of generating genuine interest and support "teases" than remain "teases" can so easily be counter-productive

pentaxuser

AgX · Sep 4, 2020

fs999 said:
On Tetenal's site they announce the future : The developer chemicals in tablet form.

Nonsense

Old Tetenal offered such for 20 years.

grat · Sep 4, 2020

AgX said:
Nonsense

Old Tetenal offered such for 20 years.

Those are specifically designed for minilab systems, not home developers is my understanding.

AgX · Sep 4, 2020

They had plain tablets too, as shown. (Though not for amateurs.)

What " new" Tetenal is uttering is mainly marketing blah-blah, in one case even stupid things (I repeatedly hinted at that).
Look at their website: hardly any products at all, no manuals etc. The only positive development at their site I see is the very new offer to get into a talk with them, though not by calling them directly as with late Tetenal, but via writing. Has anyone from Apug done so yet, to get help in processing or so?

halfaman · Sep 5, 2020

grat said:
Those are specifically designed for minilab systems, not home developers is my understanding.

For minlabs and also for dental X-Ray film development.

AgX · Sep 5, 2020

Leaving the bla-blah aside, tablets can be an interesting alternative, especially for newbies. We already talked about this in other threads.

Two points to consider
-) was not the "chemical approach", dealing with graduates or even scales part of the fascination of photographic processing when we started?
-) I once got the most nasty blisters from tiny droplets of Ultrafin concentrate splashing onto the back of my hand, though I washed them off within few seconds, and it even was my first contact. Tablets could practically diminish the risc of such.

pentaxuser · Sep 5, 2020

Perfectly right AgX At least one stockist in the U.K. sold what I think it called "pearls" which were tablets for amateur home darkroom. What worried me was why Tetenal did not feel in a position to be more positive about tablet re-introduction when it is likely to have the knowledge of how to make these. There is one thing however. This announcement talks of C41 and E6 developer whereas if I recall correctly and this is not a certainty the tablets were for RA4 developer.

However my recall may be wrong

pentaxuser

AgX · Sep 5, 2020

If the ingredients are solids or can be turned into solids (turning into salts), they all can be turned into tablets (to put it very simplified).

halfaman · Sep 5, 2020

pentaxuser said:
This announcement talks of C41 and E6 developer whereas if I recall correctly and this is not a certainty the tablets were for RA4 developer.

In minilabs there were tablets for at least C41 and RA4. Tetenal produced Ecojet-N and Ecojet-P for those machines.

pentaxuser · Sep 5, 2020

So there we are, tablets did exist and assuming the equipment to make tablets is still there we should expect to see these in the marketplace soon

pentaxuser

mshchem · Sep 5, 2020

The original Ektachrome 1/2 and 1 gallon chemicals came as dry powders sealed in metal cans. Some were partitioned cans you would open 1 end at a time. You would also find a tiny glass bottle in the can that contained sodium hydroxide. I used a kit that was from the 1950s. I got results on Fujichrome, rated very slow, ISO 12.
This would be great, but doubt it's feasible.

StepheKoontz · Sep 5, 2020

This would make life much easier for folks like me that don't shoot a lot of color. I have no interest in this for B&W, powder D-76 is super easy to deal with and stock solution lasts long enough for me.

Born2Late · Sep 5, 2020

I'd like to see a lot of chemistry in tablet form. Back in the 70's and 80' (I think), I used some B&W developers in tablet form made by "Perfection".

fs999 · Sep 5, 2020

AgX said:
Leaving the bla-blah aside, tablets can be an interesting alternative, especially for newbies. We already talked about this in other threads.

Two points to consider
-) was not the "chemical approach", dealing with graduates or even scales part of the fascination of photographic processing when we started?
-) I once got the most nasty blisters from tiny droplets of Ultrafin concentrate splashing onto the back of my hand, though I washed them off within few seconds, and it even was my first contact. Tablets could practically diminish the risc of such.

I'm shooting 6-8 chrome films per year. Having to waste 1.5-2 L of the 2.5 L kit is financially not very interesting. If tablets can be partitioned and stored over one year would be very interesting...

AgX · Sep 5, 2020

We should not overlook that Tetenal (EDIT: Ilford) already offer small volume fluids-kits (for 1x 135/36) consisting of pouches.

Also you can store concentrate volumes out of bigger fluid-kits in an airless manner.

Donald Qualls · Sep 5, 2020

Ilford has offered their "sachet" processing chemicals (likely packaged by Tetenal) -- very convenient for those who don't develop often, but want to do their own. Not at all a cost-effective way to buy chemicals, but neither is waste from liquids going bad (which also wastes your film and images).

For myself, as long as pools and spas use chlorine, I'll be able to make my own fixer from dry chemicals that have "clumping" as their worst keeping problem, and as long as people want to help their laundry out a bit (or, with a little more work, as long as they bake), and drink coffee, and take vitamins, I'll be able to make developer on an as-needed basis.

grat · Sep 5, 2020

Yeah-- if there's something that can be adapted, no matter how tediously, then why bother improving it?

You seem to have been intent on discrediting this announcement by any means possible since it was posted-- this is the first "new" product announcement by a group that's trying to put the remains of the old Tetenal company back into profitable status.

If this article is to be believed: https://petapixel.com/2019/02/01/a-closer-look-at-tetenal-a-photo-firm-thats-too-important-to-fail/

then Tetenal is pretty much a keystone for our entire hobby, and we should all be encouraged by any new product announcements.

Tetenal's Innovation for the future

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