Tetenal Vario-fix - how long does the solution last

[Jerevan]

I mixed the Vario-fix up from powder - how long does it keep in a closed plastic jug? From the minimal instruction sheet in about 58 languages I can't figure out if even keeps at all. But if it says it gives 5 litres of working solution, then I wasted 5 litres of fixer in one go by even mixing it, right?

 

[pentaxuser]

I haven't used it but isn't working solution another name for stock solution which means that you store the stock in a container and then make up a further dilution for use. I agree that it is a bad use of the word "working" as this normally means the solution that is used for fixing.

The key here is that usually the packet of powder has the number of litres of stock solution written on it. So for instance a dev powder which says 5L means you make it up to 5L of liquid which is the stock solution and when ready for use you then dilute it again if required. For instance Ilford Rapid fixer is already a stock solution but is diluted further to 1+4 for film or 1+4 for paper if you want 30 secs fixing or 1+9 if you want 1 minute fixing.

I'd store 5L in 2 empty 3L wine bag. Keeps well and is easily dispensed for working dilution

pentaxuser

 

[fschifano]

Well, Ilford Raid Fixer is really a concentrate. If you were to try to use it without dilution, you'd be surprised to find that it doesn't work because there's just not enough water to carry away the soluble silver salts. With powdered fixers, that's not the case. Usually they are made to be mixed up with the indicated amount of water to make a working solution, so you would use it without further dilution. How long does it last? Well that's hard to say, but fixers generally don't go bad very quickly. You will know when it does, because the sulfur in the thiosulfate will precipitate out, the solution will turn cloudy, and it will take on a sulfurous smell.

 

[Jerevan]

Thanks for your answers, guys! I'll see if I can get a response from Tetenal too.

 

[Jerevan]

So I sent an email with the following:

"I am unsure of the keeping properties of the Tetenal Variofix when it is mixed with water: how long does it keep in a closed bottle?

I cannot find any indication in the instruction sheet."

and within the hour I get this:

"thank you for your inquiry.

Shelf life of photographic chemistry depends on storage conditions, filling high (volume) in the bottles, dilution, use state and other factors. Therefore it is impossible to say how long it can be used.

One way to extend the shelf life is the use of Protectan - Spray, art.-no. 105193 ( http://www.tetenal.com/index_c.htm?AKT=01120010001000500055&L=UK ). It avoids oxidation of photographic chemistry and last but not least, brown glas bottles are better than plastic bottles."

I take as they don't have a clue themselves, either.

 

[fschifano]

That's just a stock answer from someone who really doesn't have a clue. OK, let me tell you what I can. I see that this particular fixer is an acidified, sodium thiosulfate fixer without hardener. That makes it pretty similar to Kodak's powdered fixer in the yellow bag which is something I keep around, but don't use much. I prefer to use Kodak's Flexicolor Fixer and Replenisher which is a concentrated ammonium thiosulfate fixer designed for the C-41 process. It works perfectly fine for B&W work. I've been using it for years now because it offers excellent performance and value. But I digress. I mixed up a batch of Kodak Fixer, the powdered, sodium thiosulfate acid fixer, well over 1 year ago and have stored it in full, airtight bottles. It is still good, so I wouldn't worry too much the Tetenal product's shelf life. You are very likely to exhaust it through use well before it dies of old age.

 

[Jerevan]

Thanks mucho, Frank!

I go through my fixer quite fast, most of the time using it one shot, so I guess I am in the clear here. I am going to put this in the "worry too much, too late in the evening" category.

 

[Lyn Arnold]

I recently purchased some Tetenal Vario-Fix in powder form in sachets to make 1Litre. I feel it will be better suited to lith and alternative processes.

I also wondered about its keeping qualities, so I tested it today with some film.

I used the fixer for 10 lith prints 2 days ago, then stored it in a plastic container. The piece of film cleared in 2.5 minutes, so I guess it's OK to use again (will test before) and fix for at least 4 minutes.

 

[Jerevan]

I now remember that I have used this fixer earlier and as I remember it, I poured into a plastic jug and used it over the course of at least several days.

It is also good to remember that all powder fixer are not based on sodium thiosulfate, it could as well be ammonium thiosulfate (which is detrimental to lith and alt processes as it bleaches quite aggressively) or in the case of the Calbe A300 fixer, a 2:7 mix of ammonium/sodium thiosulfate.

 

[PerA]

I use this fixer for fibre-based papers since it is a non-hardening fixer and therfore supposedly easier to wash away. However, I had a stock-solution standing in a plastic container for six month (probably would have got rid of it anyway) and noticed today there is a totally insoluble yellow preciptation in bottom of the container. When I checked my vertical NOVA (little space and less fumes) I found the same preciptation there. It took a lot of work to get rid of it. I will probably stick to using this fixer but will be much more observant in the future.

 

[fschifano]

....I had a stock-solution standing in a plastic container for six month (probably would have got rid of it anyway) and noticed today there is a totally insoluble yellow preciptation in bottom of the container...

Yes, that's what happens when fixer goes bad. That's the sulfur precipitating out, and when that starts happening to the fixer, it will be smelling of sulfur too. If you were to take a solution of sodium thiosulfate and add some acetic acid, the same thing will happen very quickly.

 

[PerA]

Thank you! Sulphur. Of course! (should have figured that out myself having studied chemistry for more than a year at university . I have to start printing a little more frequently again to avoid that!