Tetenal to Push to 6400 and 12400

[igmolinav]

Hi,

I read this articles I found on the internet.
Have you read anything similar?
You don't have to read it if you don't want to.

My question is very basic. Which developer do
you use to push C41 colo(u)r film to 6400 and 12800,
that keeps the grain very fine or fairly fine? I am
coming back to use film and I wonder about
what developers you guys are using. I used
to send colo(u)r film to a lab that was
machine operated. C41 film push was only
possible to one stop. That, some twenty to
twenty-four years ago. Film emulsions and
chemicals to develop may have improved
and/or changed.

This article 'raves' a bit about the opportunity
to push film like Portra 800 and Portra 400 to
those high ISOs. Moreover, the article's writer
assertains that to push to 6400 or 12800, or
perhaps a bit more, is doable and doable with
a very nice look!

Thank you for your comments expressing your
own personal experience or that of a friends who
may have used Tetenal or any other developers.
Even if you have not used Tetenal, it would be
interesting for me to read your opinion about
possible pushing and the chemicals of your choice.
I'll work with a group of two more people. Among
us we'll use film with the three formats with Portra
800, 400 and probably 160.

Thank you in advance : ) !!!

Kind regards!

Link:
https://carmencitafilmlab.com/introduction-portra-family/

P.S. The article is information found on the internet.
If you think there is something not ok with the article,
this is only being used here as a reference, only to see if
it is possible to do similar stuff, (to what they say, they
claim they can do. No need to get mad at them !!!).

 

[ericdan]

C41 is a standardized process. ALL developers are the same. That’s the whole point of having a standardized process. Whether you buy from Tetenal or Kodak or Fuji will make no difference other than size and packaging.
Color negative film can’t really be pushed. At least not well. It will result in color and contrast shifts in my experience.

 

[ericdan]

I apologize because this is probably not what you wanted to hear.
Also it’s worth noting that the lab in your link focuses on scanning only. I don’t think they even offer real optical prints.
The scanners will try to correct the messed up colors and contrast from pushing film. But if a digital file is the desired final output I think VSCO has some plugins that make digital files look like portra etc.

 

[Rudeofus]

My question is very basic. Which developer do
you use to push C41 colo(u)r film to 6400 and 12800,
that keeps the grain very fine or fairly fine? I am
coming back to use film and I wonder about
what developers you guys are using. I used
to send colo(u)r film to a lab that was
machine operated. C41 film push was only
possible to one stop. That, some twenty to
twenty-four years ago. Film emulsions and
chemicals to develop may have improved
and/or changed.

I have pushed Portra 400 to EI 3200, and 6x7cm negs from my RZ67 would print sort of ok. The scans shown in the article you linked to, and in articles linked from there, are beautiful, but the images shown are tiny - I wonder what they look like if enlarged.

About developers: C-41 is a standardized process, which means that all C-41 color developers are mostly created equal - especially with respect to their developing properties. Therefore you should not expect big differences between kits or self mixed recipes.

PS: I love analog photography to death, but there are some areas where full frame digital cameras are arguably better, and high speed ISO is certainly one of them. If you want decent analog shots, arrange lighting and scene such that Ei 1600 or lower works.

 

[trendland]

Hi,

I read this articles I found on the internet.
Have you read anything similar?
You don't have to read it if you don't want to.

My question is very basic. Which developer do
you use to push C41 colo(u)r film to 6400 and 12800,
that keeps the grain very fine or fairly fine? I am
coming back to use film and I wonder about
what developers you guys are using. I used
to send colo(u)r film to a lab that was
machine operated. C41 film push was only
possible to one stop. That, some twenty to
twenty-four years ago. Film emulsions and
chemicals to develop may have improved
and/or changed.

This article 'raves' a bit about the opportunity
to push film like Portra 800 and Portra 400 to
those high ISOs. Moreover, the article's writer
assertains that to push to 6400 or 12800, or
perhaps a bit more, is doable and doable with
a very nice look!

Thank you for your comments expressing your
own personal experience or that of a friends who
may have used Tetenal or any other developers.
Even if you have not used Tetenal, it would be
interesting for me to read your opinion about
possible pushing and the chemicals of your choice.
I'll work with a group of two more people. Among
us we'll use film with the three formats with Portra
800, 400 and probably 160.

Thank you in advance : ) !!!

Kind regards!

Link:
https://carmencitafilmlab.com/introduction-portra-family/

P.S. The article is information found on the internet.
If you think there is something not ok with the article,
this is only being used here as a reference, only to see if
it is possible to do similar stuff, (to what they say, they
claim they can do. No need to get mad at them !!!).

I used Tetenal Emofin (2 bath developer) to push bw film. to that ISO you mentioned.
So I first wonder about what your threat arrived in the color film section igmolinav???

But you guy have the intention to push color film at ISO 25000 !

Great igmolonav ! Bon Chance !


with regards



PS : As mentioned before : In bw there are different sorts of developer. In c41 you have the choise of different manufacturers of standart c41 soup.
You can use Tetenal c41 developer ( no bad idea btw with Tetenal chems ) AND to higher the result of your film in regard of highest ISO you simple have to longer the developing time.
In Addition you may try the same procedure and higher the developer temperatur.
(Don't care about correct colors - never mind - because you want highest ISO.)!

But let me state in addition : I personally failed above ISO 12800 in bw!

Color film for example Vision 500T :

is with real extrardinary good quality at highest ISO !

Herr is an example :

(C) Leslie Lazenby

What you soon will notice here (look at the scy pls.) is the difference between highest ISO with film
vs highest ISO in digital (ISO 50.000 for example.)

THE SKY IS BLACK .....in real high ISO the scy is allways shining (also at midtnight).

So the 500T is an ISO 500 film and can be used also at ISO 1000 with phantastic characteristics.
Some use this film (as standart at ISO 2000).
But the (from my point) last option is to double this box speed a last time at ISO 4000 .
That is the todays border in Film speed with color film.
Sure you can come a bit higher again (a bit faster ) but without real quality.
Notice : Per single push step you increase your contrast more and more and your grain comes real noticable at last.

ISO 3200 - ISO 4000 is possible (if you will like those results)
To some (in that ISO you prefer) - the characteristics of your film may be comparible with ISO
800.000 digital shots.
Some like it also !!

PPS : T500 is not with c41 development - but you can try it in c41 soup - but it is comparable with Portra Films - perhaps you will have to start your "highest ISO Experiment " first with Portra Films.

 

[koraks]

T500 is not with c41 development - but you can try it in c41 soup - but it is comparable with Portra Films

Sort of. It's an ECN2 film and I've done a fair bit of experimenting with these films (particularly 50D and 500T) for the purpose of printing them onto RA4. I've tried several routes, including cross processing in C41 (which sucks; the color balance was too far off to get even a halfway decent print), dramatic overexposure (3+ stops) to match the contrast requirements of RA4 and pushing. The latter, push development with ECN-2 chemistry, yields the best results, but there is significant blue-yellow crossover. Long story short: the vision 3 films are comparable to C41 films in the sense that they are both color negative films. That's about as far the comparison will go. The color palette of these ECN-2 films is fairly subdued - or it seems to, at least, until you increase the contrast during processing to match RA4 paper and then saturation is somewhere in-between Portra and middle-of-the-road films like Superia.

I find that with C41 film, underexposure by about 0.5 stops and a +1 stop push development gives a contrast (and saturation) boost that can be useful in some situations, when subject contrast is particularly low. You get increased acutance as a bonus.

As to pushing C41 by 3 stops or more: the same goes as for B&W films: you can sort of fix the contrast, but you won't get the shadow detail of a true (very-)high film speed. Push development is easy; either increase the color development time, temperature or both. A 3 stop push will require development times in the range of 8-10 minutes and it's about as far as you can go; nothing much more happens beyond a certain point of extended development. Whatever crossover there may be due to inaccuracies in the chemistry or aged film, will be amplified when cross processing. Grain will also be amplified, evidently.

Some of the things that may go wrong (lack of shadow detail, disturbed color balance) can be fixed to some extent when scanning and post processing digitally. To keep grain size in check, just shoot a larger format.

 

[trendland]

Sort of. It's an ECN2 film and I've done a fair bit of experimenting with these films (particularly 50D and 500T) for the purpose of printing them onto RA4. I've tried several routes, including cross processing in C41 (which sucks; the color balance was too far off to get even a halfway decent print), dramatic overexposure (3+ stops) to match the contrast requirements of RA4 and pushing. The latter, push development with ECN-2 chemistry, yields the best results, but there is significant blue-yellow crossover. Long story short: the vision 3 films are comparable to C41 films in the sense that they are both color negative films. That's about as far the comparison will go. The color palette of these ECN-2 films is fairly subdued - or it seems to, at least, until you increase the contrast during processing to match RA4 paper and then saturation is somewhere in-between Portra and middle-of-the-road films like Superia.

I find that with C41 film, underexposure by about 0.5 stops and a +1 stop push development gives a contrast (and saturation) boost that can be useful in some situations, when subject contrast is particularly low. You get increased acutance as a bonus.

As to pushing C41 by 3 stops or more: the same goes as for B&W films: you can sort of fix the contrast, but you won't get the shadow detail of a true (very-)high film speed. Push development is easy; either increase the color development time, temperature or both. A 3 stop push will require development times in the range of 8-10 minutes and it's about as far as you can go; nothing much more happens beyond a certain point of extended development. Whatever crossover there may be due to inaccuracies in the chemistry or aged film, will be amplified when cross processing. Grain will also be amplified, evidently.

Some of the things that may go wrong (lack of shadow detail, disturbed color balance) can be fixed to some extent when scanning and post processing digitally. To keep grain size in check, just shoot a larger format.

Yes I know Ecn 2 films in Ecn 2 chems vs. Ecn 2 films in c41 developer are two different pair of shoes (beside the aditional remouvable layer.)

But I just mentioned T500 because (from my point) it is the todays fastest speed film in color.
A little more "pushable" in comparison to Porta or lets better say : with a little better characteristics after max. push steps compared with Portra.

What may be caused from original Ecn 2 development - so that advantage may be lost with c41 developer. But in general both films (Vision3 / New Porta) have nearly the same excellent characteristics with or without push workflow.

50 D seams to have highest resolution wich you can to get today (pls. don't push 50D).

But the Op will try it with Portra films for sure. I doupt in results at box speed ISO 12800/25000.
But there is no better way AS to try it ...,!


with regards