Tetenal RA-4 alternatives for an amateur

[halfaman]

I am looking for alternatives for Tetenal RA-4 chemistry in Europe, just in case the insolvency problems they are fancing ends bad. I started using the 5 liters Colortec kits until I found the 2x4,5 liters Start-up kits aimed to fill empty minilabs tanks that are economically much better (same price, double quantity).

The alternatives I am considering are from Kodak and Fuji only, I don't like other amateur products I found in the market (Bellini, Adox, Compard). The problem I have with Kodak and Fuji chemicals is that they are sold in huge quantities for an amateur like me using a Jobo (250 ml of chemistry used).

One of the possibilities is to buy the 4x5 liters kits of Kodak Ektacolor sold in Ag-Photographic. It is 20 liters but break down in 5 liters kits and the price is extremely good. I used them in the past shared with another 3 persons (each one got a 5 liters kit) and worked well, no differences to my eyes compared to Tetenal stuff.

https://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/kodak-ra4-developer-4x5l-295-p.asp
https://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/kodak-ra4-bleach-fix-4x5l-296-p.asp
https://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/ra4-developer-starter-351-p.asp

What I found very curious is that the bottles came without any apparent sealing and they were not even completley filled. So I am wondering how good is the shelf life of the unopened concentrates in the long term (2-3 years to start the last kit). Any experiences over here?

Fuji Hunt CPRA Digital Pro is tempting but the smaller kits are 2x20 liters... I think is too much for me to stock. According to Fuji it is for digital RA-4 printing but I like the idea of increased density and saturation.

Any other ideas are welcome.

 

[koraks]

Look on eBay. No, seriously. I get my RA4 (and C41) stuff from a small business in Germany that also advertises/sells on eBay. I'm sure there are a few more across the continent. I personally use Fuji Hunt MP60. It is obviously intended for machine processing and officially requires a starter, but you can also just run some scrap (exposed, undeveloped) paper through it to season it, but I suppose you could use it one shot as well. However, there is a VERY distinct difference between fresh/unused and seasoned developer with this stuff, so if you're going to use it one shot, I'd make sure that the chemistry is at least consistent - or get the appropriate starter for it as well. I use it without a starter in a tray at room temperature because I'm too lazy to use the Jobo for prints. I replenish it by about 10-20% upon starting a printing session. Consistency is OK; I probably get a few CC of shift over the course of a few sessions (possibly due to temperature variations), but everything is within 1CC (no detectable differences) within a session.

I like the idea of increased density and saturation.

So do I, but I don't think other chemistry is going to give you much more density or saturation. I tried a few options and the only thing that makes a difference is the paper itself.

For color chemistry, I've completely given up on amateur kits. They're too expensive compared to the professional product. Yeah, you get a lot of stuff all at once, but I usually give some away to friends or sell it to them at cost. Generally it's a win-win situation.

 

[perkeleellinen]

What I found very curious is that the bottles came without any apparent sealing and they were not even completley filled. So I am wondering how good is the shelf life of the unopened concentrates in the long term (2-3 years to start the last kit). Any experiences over here?

Good shelf-life. Perhaps mine have lasted unopened for 2 years. One bottle of dev (B?) went black after I think 2.5 years.

My suggestion is to mix it all up (5 litres) and seperate into 1 litre pop bottles with the air squeezed out. I do this for developer and blix and can confirm the solutions are working after 5 years (developer) and three years (blix).

 

[Rudeofus]

If everything else fails, there are viable RA-4 formulas out there, and raw ingredient dealers (Suvatlar, Formulary, Artcraft, Silverprint, and probably some others, too), carry and ship all the required ingredients. Mixing is far easier than C-41 and E6, since only two rather simple bathes are needed.

 

[koraks]

I have limited experience with the bonavolta RA4 developer formula. As far as I can tell, it worked fine, but the addition of NaOH to reduce development time at low temperatures resulted in uncontrollable color shifts. I thought the formula caused problems with density in Fuji Crystal Archive II (mottled blacks), but I have since learned that the problem is in the paper itself. Crystal Archive Supreme does not suffer (much) from this issue.

 

[AgX]

I I don't like other amateur products I found in the market (Bellini, Adox, Compard).

What is your problem with them?

 

[RPC]

I used the bonavolta formula and got low contrast and color shifts with Endura paper. After modifying the formula by adjusting the pH correctly and lowering the amount of sulfite I got results that appeared identical to Kodak RA-4 developer in side-be-side comparisons with none of the smell. And this at 68F for 2 minutes for both Endura and Fuji CA II paper. The downside was that with the lowered sulfite, the developer life is shortened.

 

[koraks]

@RPC, how did you raise (I assume it required this) the pH? Addition of NaOH, KOH, potassium carbonate or yet something else? What was the useful lifetime of the resulting low-sulfite developer?
I did not note low contrast or saturation with the bonavolta recipe, but I didn't use it for long before switching to ready-made Fuji Hunt chemistry out of convenience. But I may try the DIY route again at some point and then it helps to know what worked for you.

 

[RPC]

@RPC, how did you raise (I assume it required this) the pH? Addition of NaOH, KOH, potassium carbonate or yet something else? What was the useful lifetime of the resulting low-sulfite developer?
I did not note low contrast or saturation with the bonavolta recipe, but I didn't use it for long before switching to ready-made Fuji Hunt chemistry out of convenience. But I may try the DIY route again at some point and then it helps to know what worked for you.

It did not need raising but lowering and lowered it by adding acetic acid. I first eliminated the low contrast by reducing the sulfite. Sulfite interferes with dye formation and that was the problem; the amount in the formula was too high. The result looked nearly perfect except for blacks that looked a little red and I eliminated that by adding acid in small increments until it went away. The developer, even in full glass jars would go dark after about five days after which I would throw it out even though it might have had some life left; you should run your own tests.

 

[halfaman]

I personally use Fuji Hunt MP60. It is obviously intended for machine processing and officially requires a starter, but you can also just run some scrap (exposed, undeveloped) paper through it to season it, but I suppose you could use it one shot as well. However, there is a VERY distinct difference between fresh/unused and seasoned developer with this stuff, so if you're going to use it one shot, I'd make sure that the chemistry is at least consistent - or get the appropriate starter for it as well.

So do I, but I don't think other chemistry is going to give you much more density or saturation. I tried a few options and the only thing that makes a difference is the paper itself.

I have also tried some options with no luck, but I keep the faith...

I don't use the chemistry as one-shot, it is reused and replenish with fresh working solution. I discard it only when it is going not be used in more than one week. Jobo is a great idea for printing, at least RA-4. The use of chemistry is ridiculous small, fairly consistent and the temperature control is very good even in CPE models sticking a modest aquarium water pump for water recirculation. I can't think in a better way to print in an amateur darkroom honestly.

My suggestion is to mix it all up (5 litres) and seperate into 1 litre pop bottles with the air squeezed out. I do this for developer and blix and can confirm the solutions are working after 5 years (developer) and three years (blix).

Thanks for the answer. My strategy is to do it only with the CD3 concentrate (the one that gets dark), use smaller bottles than keeping the working solutions and demand less space. But I can't keep the whole amount, just the equivalent for 5 liters. That is why I ask about the shelf life of the unponed concentrates, it is strange that they don't have any sealing at all.

What is your problem with them?

There are two things. One is that all of them have a monocomponent Blix concentrate that PE has stated many times it is an unstable mixture; the other is that they are at to some point "exotic" with no certainity for how long they will stay*.

* Adox and Compard kits are right now "out of existance" in fotoimpex and macodirect.

 

[koraks]

It did not need raising but lowering and lowered it by adding acetic acid.

That's interesting; I would have guessed the pH of the bonavolta recipe ending up too low given the acid nature of the CD3. Maybe I'll give it a spin one of these days to see how it compares to the replenished Fuji chemistry I currently use. I didn't note the low saturation with Endura or CA-II, but I did no structured comparison.

I have also tried some options with no luck, but I keep the faith...
There are two things. One is that all of them have a monocomponent Blix concentrate that PE has stated many times it is an unstable mixture;

Can't argue with PE, obviously, but the Fuji Hunt blix aimed at pro labs is also a mono-component concentrate. I used to use a batch of blix that was handed down to me from someone with a processor who had run his season's prints through it. I continued to use the same (mixed, used) batch until it was about a year old before it seemed to start dying. It was never replenished throughout the ca. 9 months I used it. I can't really explain and I didn't do any analysis on retained silver level in the prints, and it sure isn't a case of best practice - all I know is that I don't worry much about stability issues with single-component RA4 blix.

 

[Berri]

I am looking for alternatives for Tetenal RA-4 chemistry in Europe, just in case the insolvency problems they are fancing ends bad. I started using the 5 liters Colortec kits until I found the 2x4,5 liters Start-up kits aimed to fill empty minilabs tanks that are economically much better (same price, double quantity).

The alternatives I am considering are from Kodak and Fuji only, I don't like other amateur products I found in the market (Bellini, Adox, Compard). The problem I have with Kodak and Fuji chemicals is that they are sold in huge quantities for an amateur like me using a Jobo (250 ml of chemistry used).

One of the possibilities is to buy the 4x5 liters kits of Kodak Ektacolor sold in Ag-Photographic. It is 20 liters but break down in 5 liters kits and the price is extremely good. I used them in the past shared with another 3 persons (each one got a 5 liters kit) and worked well, no differences to my eyes compared to Tetenal stuff.

https://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/kodak-ra4-developer-4x5l-295-p.asp
https://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/kodak-ra4-bleach-fix-4x5l-296-p.asp
https://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/ra4-developer-starter-351-p.asp

What I found very curious is that the bottles came without any apparent sealing and they were not even completley filled. So I am wondering how good is the shelf life of the unopened concentrates in the long term (2-3 years to start the last kit). Any experiences over here?

Fuji Hunt CPRA Digital Pro is tempting but the smaller kits are 2x20 liters... I think is too much for me to stock. According to Fuji it is for digital RA-4 printing but I like the idea of increased density and saturation.

Any other ideas are welcome.

If you are in the UK I would suggest buying the kit made by Bellini and Imported by nik and trick.
I buy it all the time (from an Italian online shop, I'm now based in italy) and it is graet.
It comes in 5L. I use a roller transport processor and I can process up to 50 30x40cm sheets with it