Tetenal Neofin blau (blue), use twice?

psmithp · Jul 11, 2022

The German and Polish instructions say that a batch (one bottle of concentrate to 300 or 500 ml of solution) can be used twice. The English and French instructions do not mention this. There is no indication of extended development times (normally you would expect longer time for the second use, but that is not the case with Tetenal's new Parvofin in tablets).
Does anybody here know something or have any experience?
(I have written to them but at an earlier occasion they replied in a very friendly manner that they were to busy to reply).

AgX · Jul 11, 2022

To my understanding the Neofin range was designed by Beutler as single-use developers.

And when you look at the Tetenal 1847 website you see already the package designated as single-use developer.

TETENAL Neofin Blau S/W Filmentwickler Konzentrat

Die neue TETENAL 1847 GmbH ist Spezialist für alle fotochemischen Prozesse in der analogen Fotografie. Wir haben uns der innovativen Weiterentwicklun…

tetenal.com

And as far as I can see this was the case already decades ago.

And at the german manual linked from there it explicetely only is referenced at such, moreover also at immediate use of the working solution.
However there also is hinted at a preceeding version of this developer, maybe this is the cause of your confusion.

psmithp · Jul 11, 2022

AgX said:
To my understanding the Neofin range was designed by Beutler as single-use developers.

And when you look at the Tetenal 1847 website you see already the package designated as single-use developer.

TETENAL Neofin Blau S/W Filmentwickler Konzentrat

Die neue TETENAL 1847 GmbH ist Spezialist für alle fotochemischen Prozesse in der analogen Fotografie. Wir haben uns der innovativen Weiterentwicklun…

tetenal.com

And at the german manual it explicetely only is referenced at such, morever also at immediate use of the working solution.
However there also is hinted at a preceeding version of this developer, maybe this is the cause of your confusion.

Yes but: the page you refer to says:
Ergiebigkeit:
1 Flasche = 1 - 2 Filme.
?

AgX · Jul 11, 2022

Yes, but capacity and longevity are different issues.

As it explicitely refers to immediate use, basically you can do as follows:

-) make the complete solution and in 1 run either develop one or two films, then discard the solution
-) make two solutions and in two directly succeeding runs each time process one film with one of the solutions
-) use only 1/2 of the concentrate and save the rest of the concentrate under inert gas or filled into respective smaller glass bottle for (much) later developing of the second film

Trask · Jul 11, 2022

I have a lengthy document called "NEOFIN Technique" that I copied from the internet years ago; I think I found it on the website jackspcs.com -- this site appears to be defunct, and even using the Wayback Machine the links lead to an entirely different website in South Asia, I believe. This document says one vial is intended to develop one roll of film, making no mention of doing a second roll. Of course, it's your film...As an aside, the author also make reference to using Neofin to develop document film by diluting a vial in 1000cc of water and testing from there. NOW -- having said all that, I also have NEOFIN instructions as provided by Tetenal (attached) wherein Tetenal says that if you want to develop a second roll of film, go ahead and do so but remember to add 20% more time. To quote the instructions: "For the second film or simultaneous development of two films, lengthen the time by 20%." So the manufacturer certainly thinks it's OK to use one vial for two films.

AgX · Jul 12, 2022

Trask said:
As an aside, the author also make reference to using Neofin to develop document film by diluting a vial in 1000cc of water and testing from there.

There once was a range of Neofin single-use developers:
Blue
Red (high sensitive films)
Doku (pictorial TP)
Color (restricted reusable)

AgX · Jul 12, 2022

Trask said:
To quote the instructions: "For the second film or simultaneous development of two films, lengthen the time by 20%."

In the current manual this is not expressed this way. But to use the working solution immediately. Added by the fact that for two films then a larger bath volume (= lesser concentration of the working solution) is needed, such lengthening of time results out of the concentration/time table.

BMbikerider · Jul 12, 2022

AgX said:
To my understanding the Neofin range was designed by Beutler as single-use developers.

And when you look at the Tetenal 1847 website you see already the package designated as single-use developer.

TETENAL Neofin Blau S/W Filmentwickler Konzentrat

Die neue TETENAL 1847 GmbH ist Spezialist für alle fotochemischen Prozesse in der analogen Fotografie. Wir haben uns der innovativen Weiterentwicklun…

tetenal.com

And as far as I can see this was the case already decades ago.

And at the german manual linked from there it explicetely only is referenced at such, moreover also at immediate use of the working solution.
However there also is hinted at a preceeding version of this developer, maybe this is the cause of your confusion.

Yes I have to agree with AGX it is for one use only. The Beutler formula was one of the simplest but it always was use once and throw away. You might get away with it if you are processing 24 exp films but given the price of film today is it worth it.

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Jul 12, 2022

AgX said:
To my understanding the Neofin range was designed by Beutler as single-use developers.

Out of curiousity I checked MSDS of Tetanal Neofin Blau. It appears to be a MQ developer with Carbonate but interestingly without Sulphite! However, Formulary's Beutler Neofin Blue is a Metol developer with Sulphite and Carbonate but no Hydroquinone! Are these two the same developers for all practical purposes despite the differences in the composition?

psmithp · Jul 12, 2022

Trask said:
I have a lengthy document called "NEOFIN Technique" that I copied from the internet years ago; I think I found it on the website jackspcs.com -- this site appears to be defunct, and even using the Wayback Machine the links lead to an entirely different website in South Asia, I believe. This document says one vial is intended to develop one roll of film, making no mention of doing a second roll. Of course, it's your film...As an aside, the author also make reference to using Neofin to develop document film by diluting a vial in 1000cc of water and testing from there. NOW -- having said all that, I also have NEOFIN instructions as provided by Tetenal (attached) wherein Tetenal says that if you want to develop a second roll of film, go ahead and do so but remember to add 20% more time. To quote the instructions: "For the second film or simultaneous development of two films, lengthen the time by 20%." So the manufacturer certainly thinks it's OK to use one vial for two films.

Thank you - this is exactly what I was after!

RalphLambrecht · Jul 12, 2022

psmithp said:
The German and Polish instructions say that a batch (one bottle of concentrate to 300 or 500 ml of solution) can be used twice. The English and French instructions do not mention this. There is no indication of extended development times (normally you would expect longer time for the second use, but that is not the case with Tetenal's new Parvofin in tablets).
Does anybody here know something or have any experience?
(I have written to them but at an earlier occasion they replied in a very friendly manner that they were to busy to reply).

In any case it's false economy. You're always better off using it one time for consistency and freshness. Saving pennies is not worth losing valuable photographs.

psmithp · Aug 2, 2022

RalphLambrecht said:
In any case it's false economy. You're always better off using it one time for consistency and freshness. Saving pennies is not worth losing valuable photographs.

It's only false if you loose photos. And still, some of the new instructions say that you can use it for two rolls.

psmithp · Aug 2, 2022

Trask said:
I have a lengthy document called "NEOFIN Technique" that I copied from the internet years ago; I think I found it on the website jackspcs.com -- this site appears to be defunct, and even using the Wayback Machine the links lead to an entirely different website in South Asia, I believe. This document says one vial is intended to develop one roll of film, making no mention of doing a second roll. Of course, it's your film...As an aside, the author also make reference to using Neofin to develop document film by diluting a vial in 1000cc of water and testing from there. NOW -- having said all that, I also have NEOFIN instructions as provided by Tetenal (attached) wherein Tetenal says that if you want to develop a second roll of film, go ahead and do so but remember to add 20% more time. To quote the instructions: "For the second film or simultaneous development of two films, lengthen the time by 20%." So the manufacturer certainly thinks it's OK to use one vial for two films.

Thanks!

AgX · Aug 2, 2022

psmithp said:
It's only false if you loose photos. And still, some of the new instructions say that you can use it for two rolls.

We discussed this in detail. Now in a reply to Ralph you bring up confusion by purpose.

psmithp · Aug 2, 2022

AgX said:
We discussed this in detail. Now in a reply to Ralph you bring up confusion by purpose.

No confusion. Each photographer decides on her or his balance between economy and image quality or risk of loss.

psmithp · Sep 3, 2022

BMbikerider said:
Yes I have to agree with AGX it is for one use only. The Beutler formula was one of the simplest but it always was use once and throw away. You might get away with it if you are processing 24 exp films but given the price of film today is it worth it.

The sceptics were probably right. I tried. The second roll, +20% time came out blotchy and uneven.

Tetenal Neofin blau (blue), use twice?

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