Tetenal Magic Box kits E6 - capacity?

wilwahabri · Apr 21, 2021

I have a Tetenal Magic Box kit. It claims it is for a single 35mm 36 exposure film.
That could actually process 2 x 120 films as the total area of a 120 film is approximately three quarters that of the area of a 35mm 36 exposure film. or even 4 or 5 24 exposure 110 films as these have an area approximately one fifth of that of 35mm film.

My question to anyone who has tried this is:-

Will the kit actually do more than 1 35mm film reliably? usually the chemistry is made so that there is more than enough for the task. So has anyone tested this out to see how many rolls of film this kit can develop? and what changes to process timings are required as the developer becomes used up?

Bill

dmtnkl · Apr 21, 2021

I have tried the Magic Box kit. In fact, this is the kit that got me into E6 processing. It is easy to use and i immediately got great results with it. I don't have to rely any more on local labs that used to deliver slides with all sorts of problems Do go ahead and give it a try.

I develop using a Jobo 1510 tank (~250ml) using inversion agitation and a Cinestill TCS-1000 for temperature control. Therefore, the tank needs to be filled to its capacity in order to cover the surface of the film. I used the chemistry available in the kit to prepare 250ml solutions and successfully developed 3 rolls of 135 film. Usually it was 2 E6 rolls followed by a cross processed Ektar 100 (with heavily adjusted times in this case), but even 3 E6 rolls worked fine. Make sure to read the instructions carefully and adjust development times accordingly for every other film (First Developer +15 seconds, Color Developer and Blix +1 minute for every other roll).

Also be careful not to cross contaminate the chemistry. It would also be wise to keep your working solutions clean. I use two separate bottles for each solution. I start by preparing the working solution in one "dirty" bottle and then i pour it through a coffee filter in its final "clean" bottle. The same happens after each batch. The used solutions are emptied in the "dirty" bottles, the "clean" bottles are rinsed and then filled with the re-filtered solutions. I was noticing severe concetration of some kind of flakes on developed kodak films (Ektachrome and cross processsed Ektar). After i started filtering my chemistry i managed to have completely clean slides.

Finally, in case you might wonder, i would advise to use the working solutions within one week for optimal results. I recently used a month old set of mixed E6 chemistry and it gave good results for a third batch of rolls, but i think it would be better to use them up as fast as you can. Therefore try to gather 2 or 3 rolls and develop them in rapid succession so the chemistry remains fresh during the process.

wilwahabri · Apr 22, 2021

dmtnkl said:
I have tried the Magic Box kit. In fact, this is the kit that got me into E6 processing. It is easy to use and i immediately got great results with it. I don't have to rely any more on local labs that used to deliver slides with all sorts of problems Do go ahead and give it a try.

I develop using a Jobo 1510 tank (~250ml) using inversion agitation and a Cinestill TCS-1000 for temperature control. Therefore, the tank needs to be filled to its capacity in order to cover the surface of the film. I used the chemistry available in the kit to prepare 250ml solutions and successfully developed 3 rolls of 135 film. Usually it was 2 E6 rolls followed by a cross processed Ektar 100 (with heavily adjusted times in this case), but even 3 E6 rolls worked fine. Make sure to read the instructions carefully and adjust development times accordingly for every other film (First Developer +15 seconds, Color Developer and Blix +1 minute for every other roll).

Also be careful not to cross contaminate the chemistry. It would also be wise to keep your working solutions clean. I use two separate bottles for each solution. I start by preparing the working solution in one "dirty" bottle and then i pour it through a coffee filter in its final "clean" bottle. The same happens after each batch. The used solutions are emptied in the "dirty" bottles, the "clean" bottles are rinsed and then filled with the re-filtered solutions. I was noticing severe concetration of some kind of flakes on developed kodak films (Ektachrome and cross processsed Ektar). After i started filtering my chemistry i managed to have completely clean slides.

Finally, in case you might wonder, i would advise to use the working solutions within one week for optimal results. I recently used a month old set of mixed E6 chemistry and it gave good results for a third batch of rolls, but i think it would be better to use them up as fast as you can. Therefore try to gather 2 or 3 rolls and develop them in rapid succession so the chemistry remains fresh during the process.

thanks for the information. It was what I suspected based on other processing systems. Point of clarification, you mentioned increasing the tie in the first dev by 15 second, is that 15 seconds extra for each extra film?

Cheers

Bill

dmtnkl · Apr 22, 2021

Each processing batch contains the First Developer, Color Developer, Blix, Stabilization and the intermediate wash steps. For every processing batch you need to increase the processing time for most of the working solutions.

- Using the 1510 tank and 250ml solutions, each processing batch contains one 135 roll. So, 3 batches will yield 3 processed rolls, which is ideal for low volume shooters.

- Using the 1520 tank and 500ml solutions (which you can make using two Magic Box Kits or by breaking up the 2.5l Tetenal E6 Kit), each processing batch contains two 135 rolls on two reels or two 120 rolls in the same reel. So with this configuration, with 3 batches you will develop 6 rolls. You clearly need to shoot more film to make effective use of this setup.

- You can extrapolate for other configurations using larger tanks and solutions.

For each batch you increase the First Developer time by 15 seconds and the Color Developer's as well as the Blix's time by one minute. Wash and stablization times remain the same.

You can also check the Tetenal E6 manual. It lists all the above, as well as timings for push and pull processing.

wilwahabri · Apr 22, 2021

thanks dntmkl, that clears it up nicely. Now to shoot some E-6 film!

dmtnkl · Apr 22, 2021

A few more tips:

- I will stress again the risk of cross contamination. Use separate bottles for each chemical and mark them explicitly so you them in the same way each time. Mark even their caps, i have read about people who cross contaminated working E6 solutions by mixing up the caps. The only thing i use commonly is the funnel for pouring the solutions from the tank back to the "dirty" bottles, and even that one i make sure to rinse thoroughly after each step.

- Use distilled water at least for the stabilizer. In this way you will avoid drying marks and stains after the film dries up.

- In case you filter your chemistry properly and you can visually verify that there is no residue/flakes/whatever, but you still see dirt and other particles stuck on your dried film, you should examine if your water tap expels rust, dirt and other particles in noticeable amounts. In that case you might want to fit a filter to the tap during washing (like this one from paterson).

thuggins · Apr 22, 2021

The standard E6 kit advises 6 rolls per batch. I always get 10 rolls and have gotten as many as 12. But the increased time required was inconvenient.

I've kept mixed batches for more than two months. The current batch is coming up on three months and I just did roll 7 in it.

dmtnkl · Apr 23, 2021

thuggins said:
The standard E6 kit advises 6 rolls per batch. I always get 10 rolls and have gotten as many as 12. But the increased time required was inconvenient.

I've kept mixed batches for more than two months. The current batch is coming up on three months and I just did roll 7 in it.

Which 'standard E6 kit' are you referring to?

Tetenal instructions indicate timings for 3 processing batches per set of mixed working solutions. If by 'standard' you mean the 500ml solutions, then yes you get 6 rolls.

You can stretch it even more but you will probably lose something. In any case, i am not in the position to comment on this as i always try to use my working solutions in a week or so to keep them as fresh as possible.

thuggins · Apr 24, 2021

dmtnkl said:
You can stretch it even more but you will probably lose something. In any case, i am not in the position to comment on this as i always try to use my working solutions in a week or so to keep them as fresh as possible.

Yes you can ""stretch it" and, no, you will not "loose something". I've developed hundreds of rolls in Tetenal E6 and the working batch is rarely discarded before it is two months old. The last roll is always as good as the first.

This idea of using a batch immediately comes from people repeating baseless nonsense.

fs999 · May 18, 2021

I have successfully developed 3 120 films with one MagicBox.
I'm sure a fourth would have been possible.

I used the timing explained by @tmtnkl : "increase the First Developer time by 15 seconds and the Color Developer's as well as the Blix's time by one minute." for second film and +30 s and +2 min. for third film.
I used a Jobo 1520 tank with my CPE-2 Plus. 250 ml is enough for rotating.

The QRCode on the card inside the box don't give access to the manual.
You can find the manual here : Tetenal site but only in German...

Captain Mainwaring · Jun 21, 2021

Uh, so if my Paterson tank requires 300 ml for a roll of 135 film and 500 ml for a roll of 120, I'm up Brown Creek in a leaky canoe sans paddle with just one kit? Or would diluting it further and extending the processing time work?

wilwahabri · Jun 22, 2021

Technically yes, you are paddling! if you need 500ml to get a working level in the tank then you will need two kits. Additional dilution would work, one kit contains enough developer to fully develop the film, but what effect this would have on development time would be hard to establish. Trial and error is likely to result in wasting both film and chemicals. I had similar issues when developing 35mm film in my Jobo 1510 tank manually. However I found that although the recommended amount was 450ml for hand development, 250ml covered the reel completely (checked by filling the tank with lid off and empty film reel in place). So I went ahead and processed it and it was fine. That would not work for 120 film.
However, if you use your developing tank laid on its side and rolled backwards and forwards in a continuous slow motion, there is enough developer to cover the film as it rolls through the solution. This is the same principle used in the Jobo CPE / CPA and auto processors. There are hand rolling stands available for most cylindrical developing tanks.
When used horizontally and subject to continuous rotation you can use approximately 50% of the required solution that a vertical, agitated process would use PROVIDED that the smaller solution volume contains enough chemical to develop the film fully, which in this case it does - the makers state it will process 1 roll 35mm film or 1 roll 120.
If you use the tank horizontally, then due to the continuous rotation the development time may need to be shortened by 10 to 15%.
You would have to use a water bath with water at 38°C, and arrange to have the tank part submerged (only up to the lip of the filler) at all times during the processing. The same way that the Jobo CPE and CPA processors do.
The Kit I have used (E6) actually has enough chemical in it to process at least 2 rolls of 36 exposure 35mm film (35mm film has by far the largest area and therefore volume of silver) increasing the process times for the dev, colour dev, and blix each by 1 minute.

perkeleellinen · Jun 22, 2021

Captain Mainwaring said:
Uh, so if my Paterson tank requires 300 ml for a roll of 135 film and 500 ml for a roll of 120, I'm up Brown Creek in a leaky canoe sans paddle with just one kit?

I also went through this thought process. The kit is designed for the Jobo 1510 tank. When I checked the price of the tank plus the price of the kit, it was more than my yearly E6 lab processing costs and I went no further!

fs999 · Jun 22, 2021

perkeleellinen said:
The kit is designed for the Jobo 1510 tank

Or 1520 tank rotating.

Captain Mainwaring · Jun 22, 2021

fs999 said:
Or 1520 tank rotating.

And there was much weeping and gnashing of teeth

Captain Mainwaring · Jun 22, 2021

perkeleellinen said:
I also went through this thought process. The kit is designed for the Jobo 1510 tank. When I checked the price of the tank plus the price of the kit, it was more than my yearly E6 lab processing costs and I went no further!

wilwahabri said:
Technically yes, you are paddling! if you need 500ml to get a working level in the tank then you will need two kits. Additional dilution would work, one kit contains enough developer to fully develop the film, but what effect this would have on development time would be hard to establish. Trial and error is likely to result in wasting both film and chemicals. I had similar issues when developing 35mm film in my Jobo 1510 tank manually. However I found that although the recommended amount was 450ml for hand development, 250ml covered the reel completely (checked by filling the tank with lid off and empty film reel in place). So I went ahead and processed it and it was fine. That would not work for 120 film.
However, if you use your developing tank laid on its side and rolled backwards and forwards in a continuous slow motion, there is enough developer to cover the film as it rolls through the solution. This is the same principle used in the Jobo CPE / CPA and auto processors. There are hand rolling stands available for most cylindrical developing tanks.
When used horizontally and subject to continuous rotation you can use approximately 50% of the required solution that a vertical, agitated process would use PROVIDED that the smaller solution volume contains enough chemical to develop the film fully, which in this case it does - the makers state it will process 1 roll 35mm film or 1 roll 120.
If you use the tank horizontally, then due to the continuous rotation the development time may need to be shortened by 10 to 15%.
You would have to use a water bath with water at 38°C, and arrange to have the tank part submerged (only up to the lip of the filler) at all times during the processing. The same way that the Jobo CPE and CPA processors do.
The Kit I have used (E6) actually has enough chemical in it to process at least 2 rolls of 36 exposure 35mm film (35mm film has by far the largest area and therefore volume of silver) increasing the process times for the dev, colour dev, and blix each by 1 minute.

Oh! Missed your answer the first time. So there is hope… Thanks!

fs999 · Jun 24, 2021

Captain Mainwaring said:
And there was much weeping and gnashing of teeth

My post was purely informative. As the 1510 tank is too small for 120 films.

dmtnkl · Jun 24, 2021

Captain Mainwaring said:
Uh, so if my Paterson tank requires 300 ml for a roll of 135 film and 500 ml for a roll of 120, I'm up Brown Creek in a leaky canoe sans paddle with just one kit? Or would diluting it further and extending the processing time work?

There was a thread a while ago for non-standard E6 dilutions.

wilwahabri · Jun 24, 2021

fs999 said:
My post was purely informative. As the 1510 tank is too small for 120 films.

Same applies to the 1520 tank, which is big enough for 2 rolls of 35mm or 1 roll 120. and it would still only require 250ml solution if used horizontally

fs999 · Jun 24, 2021

wilwahabri said:
Same applies to the 1520 tank, which is big enough for 2 rolls of 35mm or 1 roll 120. and it would still only require 250ml solution if used horizontally

That's what I said... Read the original post.

gijsbert · Jun 25, 2021

Are these Tetenal Magic boxes sold in Canada?

Tetenal Magic Box kits E6 - capacity?

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