Tetenal Limited Colortec© C-41 Negative Kit Rapid 2 Bath

chorleyjeff · Jun 3, 2007

I am looking to buy small quantities of C41 chemicals in the UK.
Paterson appear not to produce it now.
Nova kits seem ideal except the shelf life for one litre which will process a dozen films is only 14 days and I don't do 6 films a week - anything from none to 4 a week is typical.
Other kits , such as Speediebrews , are not suitable for normal processing.
The Tetenal product in the title bar seems readily available. So the question is has anybody used it, is it suitable for low throughput amateur use and what are your views in general.
Thanks
Jeff

PS I use MF so using minilabs is not an option and pro labs are too expensive.

bob100684 · Jun 3, 2007

A lot of minilabs can do 120 actually, at least develop it. A 2 bath kit is probably a kind of stupid idea as c-41 was designed with a set number of steps, a seperate bleach and fix ect.

chorleyjeff · Jun 3, 2007

bob100684 said:
A lot of minilabs can do 120 actually, at least develop it. A 2 bath kit is probably a kind of stupid idea as c-41 was designed with a set number of steps, a seperate bleach and fix ect.

Ah. When I have asked for 120 processing at minilabs I have got blank expressions except by a local pro who had a town centre retail shop and did dev. only but he has moved from the town centre and no longer does retail. I'll have another trawl around and see what turns up.
But I would like to dev. myself having seen the cavalier way film is handled in some minilabs.
Cheers
Jeff

papo · Jun 3, 2007

Recently I started developing color films for about the same reasons as you. I bought Tetenal C41 Negative kit too, and made only half liter of working solutions and sprayed Protectan over the rest of the concentrates. Up to now I have developed 6 films, two at a time. For the first two films I used the times given for the first 4 films in one liter (3'15" for developer, etc), for the second two films the times given for films 5-8, etc. The results are good and I think I'll be able to develop yet another pair of films. If it is good as well and the second half of the concentrates has the same performance, then the total number of films will be 16, which is very good.
I put the working solutions in PET bottles, which can be pressed so that no air is left above the solution and the caps are very tight and do not let in any air even after weeks. I have developed those 6 films over the last 6 weeks and the working solutions still look good.

poutnik · Jun 3, 2007

Another alternative is Amaloco K-54 2-bath kit for developing C-41 films. I've used it with good results, and it is even cheaper than Tetenal.

I also don't shoot very often, (sometimes several rolls a week, sometimes not even a single picture for month) and store the shot rolls in the fridge in a tight ziplock bag until I have enough rolls (and time) to do the developing.

As for getting the Amaloco kit, have a look at the webshop of FotoHuis (Robert Vonk, he is a member here too), the site can be found at Dead Link Removed, there would not be a problem shipping to England (as he'll ship to the Czech Republic too), or contact him for information about a local distributor in UK.

AgX · Jun 3, 2007

Jeff,

I have not used Tetenal's C-41 Rapid Kits up to now, but intend to do so the coming weeks. With 5L working solution you can process 60-80 type135 films. Tetenal advises up to three runs with the working solution. Shelf life for the working solution would be 2-4 weeks, for the opened concentrate up to 24 weeks.
As you can make up working solution as you need it, you would have to discard in the worst case chemistry for 2 films.

That Amaloco developer is not shown on their website, but produced by them for the German Phototec company who sells it as `Dilucolor´, but also shows up at Fotuhuisrovo as `K54 Mono-negacolor C-41´.
The main difference would be that Amaloco no longer advises to use 30°C processing. Tetenal however states that as option.

srs5694 · Jun 3, 2007

This topic has come up several times here in the past. A few thoughts and comments, based mostly on readings of previous posts:

If you want to avoid a 2-bath kit (which uses blix rather than separate bleach and fix) but the only commercial options in your size range are of that variety, you could use the 2-bath kit's developer along with bleach and fix purchased separately. This will raise your cost (since you won't be using the blix), but possibly less so than throwing away huge quantities of developer. Bleach and fix are likely to last much longer than developer.
Some people have reported that they can obtain relatively small quantities of C-41 chemistry from minilab operators. Get friendly with a couple and see what you can arrange.
If you can find others in your area with similar needs, you may be able to order a bigger kit than any one of you would need and then split it between you.
Several mix-it-yourself formulas are available, which let you mix in the quantities you like. Obtaining raw chemicals may be a problem, particularly in the UK. I believe that Dead Link Removed (in Canada) ships internationally, but I've not looked into this in any detail.
C-41 chemicals (particularly the developer) that ship in multiple bottles for mixing at time of use are likely to last longer than single-bottle developers. The latter are more common with the hobbyist kits.
Some here (particularly Photo Engineer, whose knowledge far surpasses my own) are picky about color chemicals and claim that most mix-it-yourself and "hobby brand" chemicals are inferior to those from major manufacturers (Kodak and Fuji).

Best of luck finding an adequate solution!

chorleyjeff · Jun 3, 2007

srs5694 said:
This topic has come up several times here in the past. A few thoughts and comments, based mostly on readings of previous posts:

If you want to avoid a 2-bath kit (which uses blix rather than separate bleach and fix) but the only commercial options in your size range are of that variety, you could use the 2-bath kit's developer along with bleach and fix purchased separately. This will raise your cost (since you won't be using the blix), but possibly less so than throwing away huge quantities of developer. Bleach and fix are likely to last much longer than developer.

Some people have reported that they can obtain relatively small quantities of C-41 chemistry from minilab operators. Get friendly with a couple and see what you can arrange.

If you can find others in your area with similar needs, you may be able to order a bigger kit than any one of you would need and then split it between you.

Several mix-it-yourself formulas are available, which let you mix in the quantities you like. Obtaining raw chemicals may be a problem, particularly in the UK. I believe that Dead Link Removed (in Canada) ships internationally, but I've not looked into this in any detail.

C-41 chemicals (particularly the developer) that ship in multiple bottles for mixing at time of use are likely to last longer than single-bottle developers. The latter are more common with the hobbyist kits.

Some here (particularly Photo Engineer, whose knowledge far surpasses my own) are picky about color chemicals and claim that most mix-it-yourself and "hobby brand" chemicals are inferior to those from major manufacturers (Kodak and Fuji).

Best of luck finding an adequate solution!

Thanks for your thoughts.
I am ploughing a lonely furow because I am the only member of my photo club who does colour developing and enlarging and there are only about 4 others who do B/W chemical processing. Not much chance to share buying power!
I'll go with the Tetenal and assuming I get on well with it explore the use of seperate bleach, fix and stabilisor. I would guess that Fuji and Kodak products are the best available but I'm not sure I have the accuracy or ability to get the best out of them and in my very amateur situation I guess would not see the difference. I would guess that using seperate bleach and fix would be more archival.
Cheers
Jeff

Richard Harris · Jun 3, 2007

I have used Patterson c41 chemicals and had good results but my advice is get yourself some pipettes and good grads and buy the Kodak chemicals that are the best and cheapest on the Market. You will need the pipettes to mix the small quantities needed for say 2 films in a Jobo tank. The B solution in Kodak flexicolor is the one that seems to be intolerant of oxidisation so split that in to filled small bottles from a chemist. You will be using a six bath kit with separate bleach and fix stages so your negatives will have excellent archival qualities Something that is debatable with the blix in lots of hobbyist kits. It is difficult to say what Kodak thinks is the minimum amount of chemical to use for each 35mm 36exp film or 120 roll but I use 150ml per film whereas I used only 100ml for the patterson and other small kits in the past. Photo Engineer I think once posted on another site that 100ml was good for Kodak in the old days and that nothing in the formula has changed but I have stuck to 150ml. The thing to remeber is that C41 is Kodak's patent and nobody does it better.

AgX · Jun 3, 2007

I also thought about using seperate bleach and fix solutions. But it is not easy to obtain them in small amounts. Typically you get them in replenishing sets. Staying at that 2-bath kits would mean keeping things simple in terms of logistics.
As far as I remember PE did not state brands concerning his comments on blixes.

bob100684 · Jun 3, 2007

chorleyjeff said:
Ah. When I have asked for 120 processing at minilabs I have got blank expressions except by a local pro who had a town centre retail shop and did dev. only but he has moved from the town centre and no longer does retail. I'll have another trawl around and see what turns up.
But I would like to dev. myself having seen the cavalier way film is handled in some minilabs.
Cheers
Jeff

the funny thing is as a kit for ALL fuji film proscesor's, two 120 intermediate cassetes are included.

srs5694 · Jun 3, 2007

chorleyjeff said:
I would guess that using seperate bleach and fix would be more archival.

I don't know if blix vs. separate bleach and fix steps has any archival implications. I do know that there's an immediate quality implication: Blixes tend to leave behind more residual silver, which looks like larger grain and (IIRC) reduced color saturation in the final prints. Certainly I wasn't happy with the blixes I tried when I first started doing C-41. I've now got Kodak bleach and fix that I use instead. The shelf life for these components is pretty long, so I'm not too concerned that I need to buy them in fairly large bottles. The biggest problem from my perspective is the bewildering array of similar products from Kodak.

chorleyjeff · Jun 4, 2007

thanks for replies everyone.
I have ordered some 2 bath Tetenal but in view of comments will go for seperate bleach and fix next time to see what difference I can see. Given that Kodak has the C41 patent I'll try and get what is appropriate for me from them, although the choices seem a bit confusing to me.
Cheers
Jeff

AgX · Jun 4, 2007

That Dilucolor developer is also avalaible on its own in a bottle yielding processing for 6 films only. You could use it in case you had a real low run through of C-41 films. If you could obtain bleach (and if neccessary fixer) concentrates from some bulk kits, use them.

ben-s · Jun 4, 2007

chorleyjeff said:
I have ordered some 2 bath Tetenal but in view of comments will go for seperate bleach and fix next time to see what difference I can see.

When I forst got the 2 bath kit, I thought about using seperate bleach and fix, but found it to be unnecessary.
I use the 5L kit, and part mix 500ml of each solution.
I'm using a Jobo CPE-2 processor, which makes C41 really easy.
The longest I have had working solutions made up for is about 2 weeks.
I run about 10 or so films through each batch, using the tetenal recommended times.
After that, I chuck the dev and save the blix for cleaning printing trays.
It's very good for removing the silver build up from the bottom of the dev tray - slosh it round the tray for a minute or so, and voila - one clean tray.

pentaxuser · Jun 5, 2007

Jeff. Your thread has worried me. I obtained Speedibrews Celer 41 kits not that long ago from Silverprint. It is powder and makes up 600ml only of dev and blix. Silverprint conservatively says it will develop 4 films. Michael Maunder, its maker, suggests that up to 8 films can be developed.

In powder form the kit has as good as an indefinite life. He doesn't give a shelf life once it is a liquid stock solution but in correspondence with Mr Maunder and reading between the lines to an extent I got the impression that in full brown glass bottles, its real life was probably much greater than he is prepared to claim in his literature.

pentaxuser

AgX · Jun 5, 2007

I don't get the point. What is worrying you?

chorleyjeff · Jun 6, 2007

pentaxuser said:
Jeff. Your thread has worried me. I obtained Speedibrews Celer 41 kits not that long ago from Silverprint. It is powder and makes up 600ml only of dev and blix. Silverprint conservatively says it will develop 4 films. Michael Maunder, its maker, suggests that up to 8 films can be developed.

In powder form the kit has as good as an indefinite life. He doesn't give a shelf life once it is a liquid stock solution but in correspondence with Mr Maunder and reading between the lines to an extent I got the impression that in full brown glass bottles, its real life was probably much greater than he is prepared to claim in his literature.

pentaxuser

I had overlooked theconventional Speedibrews C41. However it does seem pricey at nearly £9 plus postage for 4 films. Also I suppose I would have needed to buy preservative.
As an aside I emailed Paterson who confirmed that they no longer produce C41 or RA4 process materials and their reply said that they thought Tetenal was now the only supplier of amateur size C41/RA4 process chemicals in the UK. They also overlooked Speedibrews.
Cheers
Jeff

Galoot · Jun 13, 2007

Tetenal c-41 kit

I bought the Tetenal C-41 kit (5-liter) last October, 2006. I mix up a 1/2-liter batch of working solutions when I accumulate 8 rolls of exposed film, and run all 8 at one session in my Jobo CPE. I still have about a liter left, but the results last weekend were still very good.

fschifano · Jun 22, 2007

bob100684 said:
the funny thing is as a kit for ALL fuji film proscesor's, two 120 intermediate cassetes are included.

That may be true, but look at the situation realistically. Who's running these machines? Often it is some hormone flooded youngster who may not ever have seen a roll of 120 film and isn't the least bit curious about it either. Do you think that a person like this will recognize the machinery required to process a roll? Probably not. Nope, the intermediate cassettes will be relegated to a dusty corner somewhere, never again to see the light of day.

chorleyjeff · Jun 23, 2007

fschifano said:
That may be true, but look at the situation realistically. Who's running these machines? Often it is some hormone flooded youngster who may not ever have seen a roll of 120 film and isn't the least bit curious about it either. Do you think that a person like this will recognize the machinery required to process a roll? Probably not. Nope, the intermediate cassettes will be relegated to a dusty corner somewhere, never again to see the light of day.

What's the point about being"hormone flooded"? Envious?
I am
Cheers
Jeff

eddie gunks · Jun 23, 2007

srs5694 said:
This topic has come up several times here in the past. A few thoughts and comments, based mostly on readings of previous posts:

If you want to avoid a 2-bath kit (which uses blix rather than separate bleach and fix) but the only commercial options in your size range are of that variety, you could use the 2-bath kit's developer along with bleach and fix purchased separately. This will raise your cost (since you won't be using the blix), but possibly less so than throwing away huge quantities of developer. Bleach and fix are likely to last much longer than developer.

can you expand on thgis? why would this save throwing out the developer? i am new so forgive me if this is obvious. thanks

eddie

srs5694 · Jun 23, 2007

eddie gunks said:
can you expand on thgis? why would this save throwing out the developer? i am new so forgive me if this is obvious.

C-41 developer tends to go bad faster than the bleach or fixer. Thus, if you buy a kit that's too big, the developer will likely go bad before the bleach or the fixer. To save money, you could buy bleach and fixer in larger quantities (for lower per-unit cost) and developer in smaller quantities (at higher per-unit cost but less waste than you'd have by buying too much).

fschifano · Jun 24, 2007

chorleyjeff said:
What's the point about being"hormone flooded"? Envious?
I am
Cheers
Jeff

Oh funny. Come on man. You know how these teenagers are. Hormones are flooding their systems at levels they've never experienced and they don't know how to handle it. Consequently the job at hand is not the foremost thing in their minds. Still wonder why you often can't get a good job out of a lot of labs? They're sex crazed through no fault of their own, that's just the nature of things. Am I jealous. Heck no! I wouldn't want to go through all that again.

jrydberg · Sep 10, 2008

I'm using this kit to develop my C-41 films. As stated earlier here in the thread, Tetenal suggest that you reuse the chemistry at least twice, adjusting development times accordingly.

Doing that, I'm seeing some massive color casts already in the second reuse of the solution. Mainly cyan casts. Is this a sign that the color developer is exhausted?

I normally develop two rolls at a time in 500 ml solution. I'm using a ATL-1500. I'm do my best to not contaminate the color developer with BLIX (I wash the drain hose between development runs).

http://ginandtonique.org/jrydberg/img501.jpg

See that image for an example. Any idea of what could be wrong?

Tetenal Limited Colortec© C-41 Negative Kit Rapid 2 Bath

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