Tetenal E6-kit old - revive chemicals

[PittP]

Over time, I've accumulated the leftovers of 5 five Tetenal E6 kits (3-bath process) - all 2/3 to 3/4 used. The oldest is from 2007, the newest from 2014. The chemicals all look alike: 1st developer with big chunks (sort of crystals), Blix part 2 with all the sulfur in small flakes settled on the bottom. The other solutions look just normal.
Now (1) I have a few slide films to develop, (2) no way to get a fresh kit before autumn, or none at all this year, (3) i'd like to revive the old stuff for economic reasons.

I'd like to learn your opinions (before actually trying out with real slide film) on the following approach:

1. 1st Developer: Filter out all crystals, mix 1:1 with Tetenal Utrafin T-plus, dilute 1+4 (or 1+3) with water, development time slightly extended - ~7 min, standard in my system would be 6:30 min. (Justification: Somewhere I read that Ultrafin+ was used to boost old E6 1st developer at 38°C. I also have Amaloco AM 74 / Rollei RHS - another PQ developer even faster on p.e. T-Max. Though no references for its use as a high temp developer.)

2. Blix: Option a) Carefully filter off all sulfur flakes from Blix part 2. Then mix the Blix parts 1 and 2 as required by instructions and use accordingly, however, after a wash, add another full fix with neutral rapid fixer at 38°C (standard dilution 1+7, e.g. Agfa Agefix).
Blix, option b) Rufeus wrote great instructions on how to split a blix into bleach and fix (Thank you and cheers!). Following this, dilute Blix part 1 (1+4) and add K-Bromide (>50g/l), adjust pH with conc. vinegar (acetic acid), and use this bleach in place of the blix (= Blix part 2 is omitted/discarded); after a wash, fix with neutral rapid fixer at 38°C (standard dilution 1+7, e.g. Agfa Agefix).

3. The other solutions will be used normally (diluted 1+4, times as per Tetenal instructions).

I normally develop films in a Photo-Therm rotary processor, which serves me well. Minimum volume, however, is 380 ml of solution (for 2 135-films).
I intend to do these development tests first on small pieces of film (~1.5 frames) in a small steel can (without reel). Would results be sufficiently indicative to be transferred to the rotary tube process?

I'd really appreciate your comments and notably experiences on the same or similar topic!

Best! Pitt

 

[Rudeofus]

I have made the experience that expired E6 FD loses activity to the extent that your slides become unusable. You may have some luck with the E6 FD from the 2014 kit, but the older ones are likely toast. I would also expect that at least one part of E6 CD would have gone bad by now, same as E6 FD: the 2014 kit could work, but the older ones are likely bad.

About the milky BX2 part: yes, this part is usually the first one to go bad in Tetenal's kits, so no big surprise here. While it seems tempting to filter and use it, I have been told that the Sulfur precipitate can be fine enough to go right through your filters and would then contaminate your slides. Common sentiment is that when fixer goes bad, it's bad and should no longer be used, even if it appears to clear film.

So where does this leave you? Under normal circumstances I would say "toss out this old stuff and start with a new kit", sadly I am aware that this is not an option for you at the moment. Since from the current kits there is likely only BX1 and STAB left in working condition, I would like to ask what kind of chemicals you can source from elsewhere. You could mix your own E6 FD and E6 CD with (there was a url link here which no longer exists), assuming you can get the components more easily than an E6 kit. With your left over BX1, some KBr and a neutral rapid fixer you could create separate bleach and fixer setup if you follow (there was a url link here which no longer exists).

If you want to go the real ugly road and are willing to experiment and risk a few rolls of film, you may get lucky with a very active B&W developer as E6 FD, and RA4 CD boosted with Trisodium Phosphate and Potassium Thiocyanate as E6 CD. This would require some experimentation, though, and a pH meter and a densitometer would also help.

AFAIK Fototechnik Suvatlar ships internationally, but I can't say for sure whether this applies to your current location. Let us know what you can get, either raw chemistry from Suvatlar or elsewhere, or B&W and RA4 process chemistry plus a pH meter and a scanner. If push comes to shove, it may be the easiest and cheapest route to mail your exposed film to a place which can develop it.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

From the OP description of the solutions I would say it is not a very good idea to salvage any of the chemicals. Always remember that film is more expensive.

 

[abbandon]

For the first developer (there was a url link here which no longer exists) might be helpful and for the Blix Pt2 try (there was a url link here which no longer exists).

For the first developer first try gently heating it while stirring to get the precipitate to dissolve I have had some success with this with FD from the Fuji Hunt Pro 6 process and even if you can not get it all redissolved the results are usually usable.

PE from Photonet

Freezing may ruin working solutions.

Even cool conditions will cause the E6 first developer to form crystals. If this happens, EK says warm the FD up in warm water until the crystals dissolve and then mix.

Ron Mowrey

I gave up on the 3 Bath kits years ago and just buy the Fuji Hunt Pro 6 chemistry as I need it, mostly because of the problems with making the Blix last any length of time with the Pro 6 chemistry my Bleach and Fix are at least five years old and still fine I do usually find my self replacing first developer that has gone off within a year Pre Bleach and Reversal bath seem to be good for three years or so and I'm still using the original starters from five plus years ago. The initial investment is higher but over time you waste a lot less chemistry.

 

[davedm]

abbadon,

where are you sourcing individual Pro 6 chems from ?

 

[PittP]

Thank you all for your kind observations, suggestions, and hints to other pieces of info, notably to Rudeofus for the extensive explanations (Rudeofus, my sincere apologies for having scrambled your name in the OP, a late-night faux-pas). I'll have to see which chemicals can be sourced here...
In deed, even my "newest" kit is off, the last 2 rolls I did in October last year were quite an annoying waste.
Mail-ordering a new E6-kits is no option, since excluded from international shipping (at least that's what all reputable vendors state).
Mailing a few rolls to a lab and back across continents? Well, to me both cost and risk are prohibitive.
With this situation I might find myself at the possible end of shooting slides, very sad prospective.

Abbandon, are you running a small operation with a few slide rolls every now and then? If so, we would appreciate if you could elaborate on your processing volumes, approach, technique, sources for individual solutions etc. - I might not be the only one looking for alternatives to the short-lived and expensive Tetenal kit.

Good light to all!
Pitt

 

[emjo]

Could be worth a test development with your current chemicals. Mine has lasted too long https://jabcam.wordpress.com/2015/08/10/topic-tetenal-e-6-never-dies/

 

[Rudeofus]

Mailing a few rolls to a lab and back across continents? Well, to me both cost and risk are prohibitive.
With this situation I might find myself at the possible end of shooting slides, very sad prospective.

Well, sad to see this, but without suitable chemistry there really is no way to process slides. While mailing of slide rolls sounds expensive and risky, you always have the option to mail them in batches, which should bring down prices to more moderate levels even if you use a reputable shipping company.

Here is the issue: nobody here in this thread AFAIK, and that definitely includes myself, knows how to ship liquid, corrosive and potentially toxic chemicals across continents, so you need to get in contact with people who know how to do this. I suggested Saban Suvatlar for raw photochemistry, but Tetenal also has an overseas sales team.

Abbandon, are you running a small operation with a few slide rolls every now and then? If so, we would appreciate if you could elaborate on your processing volumes, approach, technique, sources for individual solutions etc. - I might not be the only one looking for alternatives to the short-lived and expensive Tetenal kit.

Tetenal made a (IMHO bad) design decision which created a very short lived BX2 component, but let's face it: their E6 FD concentrate is not worse than anybody else's, and no kit will survive two years of storage in hot&humid conditions and create results like a fresh kit. AFAIK nobody has made a powder kit for E6 yet, although I see no reason why such a kit can't be made.

 

[PittP]

Thank you for your considerate comments!
I'll try my luck sourcing some chemicals (I'll know by next week what the traders themselves can source) and then play with some snippets first... I'll keep you updated once I have a result.