Tetenal E6 Chemistry?

[EASmithV]

Hello,

Was trying to locate some E6 Stabilizer, as my Arista kit lacks it, and noticed that almost all the Tetenal E6 chemistry at B&H is marked Discontinued, and Freestyle doesn't seem to carry it.

So... Where can you get the Tetenal chemicals (Specifically the E6 3 bath kit) and more immediately the E6 Stabilizer, without ordering from Germany (if I can even do that with ORM-D?)

 

[MattKing]

As I understand it, for current films:

1) you can use C-41 stabilizer for both C-41 and E6 (see (there was a url link here which no longer exists)) ; and
2) this option will work fine: http://www.amazon.com/Kodak-C41-Stabilizer-Replenisher-III/dp/B00023JEKM

 

[Photo Engineer]

Any E6 kit lacking a Formaldehyde step will cause images to be less stable.

Kodak and Fuji include it in the kit in the Bleach Pre Bath. It can also be in the Stabilizer or Final Rinse. ALL current final rinse baths do NOT contain Formaldehyde. Therefore the current C41 and E6 Final Rinse baths will not protect your film properly.

Make sure that any final rinse for E6 films contains Formaldehyde if the Pre bath is missing.

This warning is not true for C41 films made after about 2000.

PE

 

[MattKing]

PE

Do I interpret correctly from your comments that the Kodak C41 Stabilizer/Replenisher III that I linked to in my post is older chemistry that contains Formaldehyde, in contrast to the current Final Rinse chemistry, which does not contain Formaldehyde?

 

[Photo Engineer]

Matt;

OTOMH, I really don't know. I do know that formalin free processes used with E6 films are a no-no! Formalin free processes with C41 films are ok if the film was made after about 2000. You will have to check out the MSDS for that Stabilzer.

PE

 

[ras351]

Any E6 kit lacking a Formaldehyde step will cause images to be less stable.

Kodak and Fuji include it in the kit in the Bleach Pre Bath

PE

Just a heads up for those interested that the latest Fuji Hunt E-6 6 bath 5 litre kit doesn't contain formaldehyde (I checked the MSDS). I bought the Tetenal stabilizer to use as the last step. I haven't checked the bulk Fuji minilab sized chemicals - they may be different.

 

[Photo Engineer]

The pre bleach contains Sodium Formaldehyde Bisulfite in an acidic solution. This decomposes into Formaldehyde in the bleach.

There are two other Formaldehyde precursors that could be used as well. We chemists do this to confuse y'all!

Now, Fui-Hunt may have changed the formula of the kit to work more closely with their film now that Kodak has discontinued E6 films, but IDK about that.

PE

 

[ras351]

The pre bleach contains Sodium Formaldehyde Bisulfite in an acidic solution. This decomposes into Formaldehyde in the bleach.

There are two other Formaldehyde precursors that could be used as well. We chemists do this to confuse y'all!

PE

The only thing listed in the msds for the pre bleach is edetic acid at 1-5%. Is this one of those precursors? The bleach lists potassium nitrate and ammonia. They have renamed the last step from "conditioner" to "final rinse", the pre bleach is now "pre bleach 2" and claim the process "creates a safer and more user friendly working environment". I'm curious to know if I need to use the separate stabilizer.

 

[brucemuir]

We chemists do this to confuse y'all!


PE

I was already confused before you did ANYTHING Ron

J/K I've been following this issue a bit since my first home E6 was the Arista kit.
It does cause me consternation because I had good results with the Arista kit but it seems it's not the best bet.

 

[Photo Engineer]

If you look at the Kodak kit with a bleach fix in it, you might see that the words "not for professional work" or something to that effect is seen on it. Even Kodak apparently made a low tier product. We knew that common bleach fix or blix formulas had defects and that is why we put so much work into the patented stuff!

All films used formalin to stabilize the dyes against fade and also to prevent the growth of mold and fungus. You see, Silver in B&W prevents mold and fungus growth, but in color film Silver is supposed to be eliminated. This is to give the best dye image quality regarding grain and color saturation. Retained silver increases grain and dulls the colors. In E6 products it also caused higher dmin.

In negative color processes, the bleach has 1/2 the burden and the fix has 1/2 the burden (so to speak), but in reversal films, the bleach has 100% burden and the fix has 100% burden (so to speack) as 100% of the silver is developed in an E6 film. This is a hard design challenge.

Now for the prebleach...Edetic acid? That is just EDTA. There must be something else in there. Now, frankly, IDK what Fuji uses but they were cross licensing things with EK in this regard. But there are 3 more possible answers. If something is below a given limit, it need not be listed in the MSDS. If it is proprietary, it need not be listed. If it is deemed harmless by some over arching government agency it is deemed harmless. And so, a secret ingredient could be Sodium Chloride at 500 mg/L. This is harmless, at a very low level and if patented is proprietary for this use and wins on all 3 counts.

Don't rely on an MSDS for a proprietary item!

And I have the patent for the use of Sodiium Formaldehyde Bisulfite in Stabilizers to prevent formalin odors. I am familiar with the need for it. You see, C41 films were updated to remove the need for Formalin, but E6 films were not updated.

PE

 

[Photo Engineer]

Try this for information:

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/pdf/msds/kodak/E6_PreBleach_Replenisher.pdf

 

[ras351]

This is my reference. I'll admit it's not particularly conclusive.

Dead Link Removed

 

[Photo Engineer]

Kodak has a particular sensitive nature towards pollution going back to the 60s. They tell it more like it is.

Fuji Hunt states there that EDTA is hazardous, as do many others, but it is used intravenously with no harm for heavy metal poisoning. So, it ain't all that bad IMHO.

PE

 

[Lamar]

I'm on my last Kodak kit now and was looking at getting the Arista kit from Freestyle. Does the Arista kit provide all the chemistry to properly develop and ensure maximum life or do I need to purchase additional chemicals? If so what chemicals? Sorry for being redundant but this thread has left me a bit confused.

 

[darkroom_rookie]

Is it completely safe to use the pre-bleach bath from the latest Fuji Hunt kit in a Jobo drum (3010)? Chrome 6x kit instructions warn only against using the final rinse in a tank or drum.

 

[hrst]

Is it completely safe to use the pre-bleach bath from the latest Fuji Hunt kit in a Jobo drum (3010)?

Yes.

Chrome 6x kit instructions warn only against using the final rinse in a tank or drum.

It's because it tends to foam in rotary agitation and because using it as a final step necessitates an extra wash step for the processor equipment.