Tetenal E6 avaialble in USA again

pukalo · Jul 12, 2012

Tetanal E6 has finally arrived at Freestyle Photo! For those who have not used it, I highly recommend it. Gives results as good as the Kodak chemisry, but easier to use. German engineered.

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/c1002-Color-Chemicals-Color-Slide

tnabbott · Jul 12, 2012

Nice, I just got the Fuji 7 bath kit from England and cobbled together the replensher version of the Kodak chemistry thinking that this stuff was getting very rare. Nice to see the Tetenal kit!

wiedzmin · Jul 13, 2012

and it looks like according to MSD sheet (page 35) stabilizer contains formaldehyde

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/pdf/msds/tetenal/102031_002.pdf

kmallick · Jul 13, 2012

wiedzmin said:
and it looks like according to MSD sheet (page 35) stabilizer contains formaldehyde

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/pdf/msds/tetenal/102031_002.pdf

wow! thats scary. can we leave the stabilizer off at the end of processing or use some other form of stabilizer? I understand some other kits like Arista's E-6 kit doesn't even use a stabilizer. Any thoughts?

ME Super · Jul 13, 2012

Formaldehyde is required for E-6

kmallick said:
wow! thats scary. can we leave the stabilizer off at the end of processing or use some other form of stabilizer? I understand some other kits like Arista's E-6 kit doesn't even use a stabilizer. Any thoughts?

Back around the year 2000, the makers of C-41 films changed the formulation so formaldehyde or its precursor, formalin, was no longer required for stability. Sadly, they did not do this for E-6 films. If you have a 6-bath process that includes a pre-bleach step, the formaldehyde/formalin is in the pre-bleach. If you're using a 3-bath kit like the Tetenal kit, it's in the last step.

If you want your slides to be archivally stable, you must use a formaldehyde or formalin based stabilizer. There's no getting around it. Photo Engineer has written an extensive post about this on APUG, but I forget exactly where it is.

Roger Cole · Jul 13, 2012

kmallick said:
wow! thats scary. can we leave the stabilizer off at the end of processing or use some other form of stabilizer? I understand some other kits like Arista's E-6 kit doesn't even use a stabilizer. Any thoughts?

Sure you can, if you don't want your slides to be stable.

WTH? If you're scared of working with something because it contains formalin, I'd suggest staying out of the darkroom entirely. It's just not that dangerous.

GRHazelton · Jul 13, 2012

Roger Cole said:
Sure you can, if you don't want your slides to be stable.

WTH? If you're scared of working with something because it contains formalin, I'd suggest staying out of the darkroom entirely. It's just not that dangerous.

WTH indeed! What is it, ya wanna live forever??

Wear rubber gloves. Provide adequate ventilation. I used to load the tank, and then soup it in the kitchen with the exhaust fan running. Problems solved.

I would also suspect that the amount of formalin present, and the typical exposure to the user would be of little consequence.

Roger Cole · Jul 13, 2012

GRHazelton said:
WTH indeed! What is it, ya wanna live forever??

Wear rubber gloves. Provide adequate ventilation. I used to load the tank, and then soup it in the kitchen with the exhaust fan running. Problems solved.

I would also suspect that the amount of formalin present, and the typical exposure to the user would be of little consequence.

Exactly. I dissected animals stored in the stuff in high school, and even at home with some Jr. Biology kit or something, when I was a child. Large scale industrial use or people who are exposed all day every day as part of their jobs are a different matter. Soaking your film in a bit of it now and then - that's all it takes. Some reasonable care. If people are really worried about formalin, hope they never find out about the various things under the kitchen sink.

kmallick · Jul 13, 2012

GRHazelton said:
WTH indeed! What is it, ya wanna live forever??

You may not, but I value my life and take MSDS sheets seriously.

GRHazelton said:
I would also suspect that the amount of formalin present, and the typical exposure to the user would be of little consequence.

Did you do a study on this?

I have made sure I have enough ventilation in my small darkroom. When I do E-6, I keep the door open. But I still want to treat carcinogenic chemicals with respect. There is a reason why E-6 processing has been relegated to the crazy few.:confused:

wogster · Jul 13, 2012

kmallick said:
wow! thats scary. can we leave the stabilizer off at the end of processing or use some other form of stabilizer? I understand some other kits like Arista's E-6 kit doesn't even use a stabilizer. Any thoughts?

The stabilizer is a required step, see B&W film doesn't need it, because silver is a natural bactericide, in colour films the silver is fixed out, and bacteria love gelatin, so it needs to be poisoned in some way so that the bacteria don't eat it. C41 films now use a different chemical for this, E6 uses formaldehyde for this.

kmallick · Jul 13, 2012

wogster said:
The stabilizer is a required step, see B&W film doesn't need it, because silver is a natural bactericide, in colour films the silver is fixed out, and bacteria love gelatin, so it needs to be poisoned in some way so that the bacteria don't eat it. C41 films now use a different chemical for this, E6 uses formaldehyde for this.

OK, I understand that. Its not going to stop me from E-6 processing or using the Tetenal kit. I love slides. But I have a problem with dare devil attitude with the chemicals like formalin or formaldehyde.

I was just curious to know if there was an alternative. It doesn't look like any. Unless of course one wants to process the slides strictly for scanning and not worrying about their life. But I am a sucker for projecting them and I have to deal with the stabilizer for keeping them in good shape.

Roger Cole · Jul 13, 2012

It's just not that dangerous. Use gloves, ventilate, don't worry so much. That's all it takes to "take it seriously."

Ken Nadvornick · Jul 13, 2012

kmallick said:
But I have a problem with dare devil attitude with the chemicals like formalin or formaldehyde.

Don't see any such attitudes around here. Just the opposite, actually.

Most here are strongly in favor of the safe handling and use of chemistry. And not in favor of seemingly hysterical attitudes against the rational use of chemistry. That hurts us all. An undergradute (or even good high school) course in Chemistry 101 should be more than sufficient to teach the lab skills necessary to handle photographic darkroom level chemicals safely, even if one is only a "cookbook" DIY user.

And if you're not DIY compounding formulas on your own and simply using commercially available prepackged kits, just follow the manufacturer's instructions and use common sense.

Ken

Bob-D659 · Jul 13, 2012

The msds sheets were written to apply to handing commercial size containers, like a 45 gallon barrel of the stuff, not to qtys you will be handling. Try reading the msds sheets for the ingredients of the gasoline you put in the tank of your vehicle. You probably wouldn't want to go within a hundred yards/meters of a filling station if you took those ones seriously, much less drive around with 15 gallons of it in the car.

wildbill · Jul 13, 2012

Bob-D659 said:
The msds sheets were written to apply to handing commercial size containers, like a 45 gallon barrel of the stuff, not to qtys you will be handling. Try reading the msds sheets for the ingredients of the gasoline you put in the tank of your vehicle. You probably wouldn't want to go within a hundred yards/meters of a filling station if you took those ones seriously, much less drive around with 15 gallons of it in the car.

reminds me of watching my dad working on the farmall H tractor. He'd take the fuel filter glass bowl off and suck out whatever was in there. That usually resulted in a fair amount of gas (leaded) in his mouth, which he'd spit out rather quickly.

don't drink your e6

Bob-D659 · Jul 13, 2012

Interestingly enough, all those "old geezers" living well into their 90's now days used to go to the drug store, buy a few of cans of formalin and fumigate their houses with it. I have noticed that common sense has preceded them into their graves. I used to buy it to pickle frogs for dissection later when I was about 12.

GRHazelton · Jul 13, 2012

kmallick said:
You may not, but I value my life and take MSDS sheets seriously.

Did you do a study on this?

I have made sure I have enough ventilation in my small darkroom. When I do E-6, I keep the door open. But I still want to treat carcinogenic chemicals with respect. There is a reason why E-6 processing has been relegated to the crazy few.:confused:

Did you not see my suggestion of rubber/vinyl gloves? I was trying, obviously unsuccessfully, to bring a little humor and perspective to this thread. As Roger Cole noted, have you looked under your sink lately? Aerosol oven cleaners. Good lord, they disperse sodium hydroxide into the air! Not good to inhale or get in the eyes.

BW chemistries also use some unpleasant chemicals. I haven't seen any folk on this forum inveighing against them. Of course it could be that having two years of a college chemistry major, and being raised by a PhD chemical engineer, also a darkroom worker, gave me a more sanguine perspective on chemical risk. Just remember, "natural" ain't always good; Mother Nature has lots of nasty surprises awaiting the unwary!

Life is inherently dangerous. Doing E-6 at home with proper precautions is doubtless far safer than driving to the market for a 6 pack of beer, which isn't good for one either. BTW, any smokers out there? Talk about risky voluntary behavior! And I make that statement as a "recovering smoker," 18 years and still clear and clean. One day at a time....

wogster · Jul 13, 2012

kmallick said:
OK, I understand that. Its not going to stop me from E-6 processing or using the Tetenal kit. I love slides. But I have a problem with dare devil attitude with the chemicals like formalin or formaldehyde.

I was just curious to know if there was an alternative. It doesn't look like any. Unless of course one wants to process the slides strictly for scanning and not worrying about their life. But I am a sucker for projecting them and I have to deal with the stabilizer for keeping them in good shape.

You need a healthy respect for the chemical, and to handle it properly. One thing to remember, the amount of formaldehyde in a given volume of stabilizer is small, according to an MSDS I found it's between 1 and 5%, however that MSDS is very old (1995) and looks like it is to older standards, so it's only 2 pages, it does not indicate whether that is the concentrate or working solution. You can email Tetenal and ask for an updated MSDS for the product you're using.

wiedzmin · Jul 13, 2012

just to clarify
when I mentioned in the second post that per MSD sheet it contains formaldehyde I meant that in a positive way bc like it was mentioned above for E-6 it is a must per Photo Engineer. From my experience stabilizer in Unicolor C-41 kit was leaving residue (not water marks) after drying and arista E-6 does not include stabilizer. I stopped using stabilizers included in kits and switched to kodak stabilizer III with formaldehyde (hard to find now, but maybe that's me) and no more residue on negatives. It does not smell really. I'm not an expert but by comparing smell only, Blix used in those kits has to be toxic

I ordered yesterday Tetenal Colortec E-6 from freestyle, we will see how it compares to Arista E-6.

Tomasz

BrendanCarlson · Jul 13, 2012

Ooohh, I can't wait to try this, I've been using the Arista E6 Kit.

Roger Cole · Jul 14, 2012

I wouldn't expect results to look much different than the Arista kit. I used to use three step Unicolor and results were just fine. But the formalin stabilizer is a good thing.

Price is a little scary though. I mayl be tempted to just buy the Arista kit and some separate formalin - PE has posted how to make a stabilizing bath.

tnabbott · Jul 14, 2012

BrendanCarlson said:
Ooohh, I can't wait to try this, I've been using the Arista E6 Kit.

Finally, a post that returns to the original topic! I agree.

Rudeofus · Jul 14, 2012

wogster said:
The stabilizer is a required step, see B&W film doesn't need it, because silver is a natural bactericide, in colour films the silver is fixed out, and bacteria love gelatin, so it needs to be poisoned in some way so that the bacteria don't eat it. C41 films now use a different chemical for this, E6 uses formaldehyde for this.

IIRC, the formalin in E6 is not just a bactericide, and there would be plenty of less problematic chems out there to do this. The formalin is necessary for dye stability, which is obviously not needed in silver grain based B&W and which has been made unnecessary in modern C41 emulsions.

Tony-S · Jul 15, 2012

ME Super said:
Back around the year 2000, the makers of C-41 films changed the formulation so formaldehyde or its precursor, formalin, was no longer required for stability.

Formalin is a 37% solution (by mass in water) of formaldehyde.

ME Super · Jul 15, 2012

Tony-S said:
Formalin is a 37% solution (by mass in water) of formaldehyde.

My mistake. Sorry about the misinformation. Either way, the formaldehyde/formalin is required for E-6 dye stability.

Tetenal E6 avaialble in USA again

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