Tetenal E-6 first time

lhalcong · Jan 7, 2014

I am preparing to process my E-6 slides film myself for first time. The Tetenal instructions I read call for 12 rolls for 1 Liter kit. Since I only have a Patterson Tank that holds two rolls at a time. Can I process 2 rolls at a time in 500ml. discard at 6th, then 6 more rolls in the remaining 500ml. ? is this ok ? Do I need to compensate time for 1-2, 2-4, 5-6 roll ? if so, how much.? I didnt understand that in the instructions I read.

I guess I do not understand the time table in the PDF very well.

Joel_L · Jan 7, 2014

Hi,

If you are mixing half the kit ( making 500ml at a time which is OK ) and you develop two rolls at a time, you develop the first two using the normal time. Develop the next two, but add 15 seconds to the first developer time and 1 minute to the color developer and bleach times. For the last two rolls, add another 15 seconds to the first developer and another minute to the color developer and bleach. Example, first two rolls, first developer is 6:15, next two rolls is 6:30, and the last two rolls at 6:45. After that, yes, your 500ml is done ( can probably squeak out a few more rolls with a little degradation in quality ). One factor is how long it takes you to develop all six rolls, mixed chemicals don't keep long. Expect to tweak things a bit as you get your process down, but that will get you an image. Temperature control is also important, make sure you have a way to control it start to end. If you decide you really like doing this, look for a Jobo on ebay. I have one and like it. I mix just what I need for the drum I'm using ( need less chemical ) and use it one shot ( discard chems after first use ). There have been a few times when I was doing a lot of rolls where I reused the chems for another pass.

Joel

lhalcong · Jan 7, 2014

If I mix the entire kit and develop all the 12 rolls in one day, 6 and 6 , I am sure it will take me a good portion of the day from beginning to end. Will the mixed chemicals last at least one day ? or if I get too tired, do the second 6 the next day ?

Joel_L · Jan 7, 2014

They do have a short shelf life but not that short. If the bottles are full with very little air, I have gone several weeks with mixed E-6 chemistry with no noticeable impact. The storage time will get shorter the more exhausted the the chemicals are ( meaning if you develop two rolls then wait 3 weeks or so, you might be OK, if you develop 4 rolls then wait three weeks, maybe not so OK ). I have had very good results with very old chemicals in the past before I starting mixing one shot. The first developer is what has gone bad first for me. Why not just mix half and break up your day? Open concentrate also has a shelf life but is much longer than mixed. I purge my concentrate bottles with inert gas ( Argon, only cause I have it ) after each session and have had them go over a year and still work fine. Of coarse they will fail on the one roll you really wanted. If this is the first time you are processing anything, make sure your reels and tank are clean and dry before the next batch or you will never get the reels to load ( not because of the tank anyway ). Also, do not do the stabilizer step in your tank or with the film on the reels. I use a little tupperware container the will submerge one roll and dump the film from the reel into the container.

LJH · Jan 7, 2014

Why not consider getting another tank? One that holds, say, 4 rolls?

Given the savings you'll get doing the processing yourself, you'll quickly amortise the cost of the new tank. They're not very expensive if you're just doing 35mm.

Also, really pay attention to Joel's recommendation for temperature control. From memory, Tetenal recommends +/-0.5 degree deviation in temperature from start to end. Read up on others' experiences with this. Their opinions are very handy.

Finally, make sure that you have a good, dust-free drying area. I have found E-6 to be significantly more prone to dust than B&W processing.

polyglot · Jan 7, 2014

It will work perfectly as two batches of 6 in 500mL. And it should last several days as long as you're careful with it, i.e. stored overnight in air-free bottles. The E6 entry in my FAQ may help you somewhat.

You do need to extend development for the latter rolls, the instructions should tell you how much. It will depend on the developer formulation. For example the Fuji C41 kit lists a different development time for each 20% of the developer's capacity, whereas the Fuji E6 kit only changes the first developer time (6:00 to 6:30) once, half way through the developer's capacity. The Tetenal may well be different.

All baths in E6 other than first developer are "to completion", so give them the official time and some extra if you feel like it, definitely some extra time as you're getting to the end of the chemistry's capacity. I tend to do bleach and fix for 8:00 each and give the CD 6:00 instead of 4:00 for that little extra bit of Dmax.

Rudeofus · Jan 8, 2014

lhalcong said:
If I mix the entire kit and develop all the 12 rolls in one day, 6 and 6 , I am sure it will take me a good portion of the day from beginning to end. Will the mixed chemicals last at least one day ? or if I get too tired, do the second 6 the next day ?

Just to give you a rough time frame: it takes me about 45-60 minutes to get one tankful of E6 film developed. You can wash the first batch while the second one is developed, but you need to add at least another half hour for washing the last batch of film. Tetenals instructions are very conservative with regard to shelf life and temperature control, but at the same time their recommended washing times are way too short. If I have a whole evening for E6 processing, I usually get about three batches of film developed.

Unless you get a tank which can hold 4-5 rolls and 1l of process chemistry (as suggested by LJH), I would mix the process chemistry in two batches (as suggested by polyglot) and possibly plan for a few days between the two dev sessions. Remember that you need to dry, cut and archive the film strips, and if you frame or scan them, this will take another few days.

bvy · Jan 8, 2014

If your Paterson tank is like mine, you'll need at least 600ml for coverage of two 35mm reels.

lhalcong · Jan 8, 2014

Joel_L said:
. Also, do not do the stabilizer step in your tank or with the film on the reels. I use a little tupperware container the will submerge one roll and dump the film from the reel into the container.

Just out of curiosity, why should I not do the stabilizer inside the tank ? thank you though for the tips.

Joel_L · Jan 8, 2014

Over time, stabilizers gum things up. Your reels will become impossible to load. Doesn't matter how well you wash things afterwards.

nbagno · Jan 8, 2014

Joel_L said:
Over time, stabilizers gum things up. Your reels will become impossible to load. Doesn't matter how well you wash things afterwards.

I dry my film on the reel using a Senrac Rapid RollFilm Dryer. If I want to continue using it, how would I use a stabilizer without taking the film off the roll and avoid gumming up my reels?

CatLABS · Jan 8, 2014

bvy said:
If your Paterson tank is like mine, you'll need at least 600ml for coverage of two 35mm reels.

Good point - i do not know of a paterson tank that takes less then 600ml per 2up 35mm.
The easiest way to go about this would be to mix the entire 1 Liter and just use it to capacity as needed.

Another question that comes to mind is how do you control the process temp in a paterson tank?

Be careful - one drop of blix in your FD or CD will render them useless. Make sure to wash your funnels/beakers between each stage.

CatLABS · Jan 8, 2014

nbagno said:
I dry my film on the reel using a Senrac Rapid RollFilm Dryer. If I want to continue using it, how would I use a stabilizer without taking the film off the roll and avoid gumming up my reels?

use stainless steel reels, which can be cleaned (a bit more easily) then plastic reels.
You can also immerse your reels in "Processor Clean II" and scrub the gunk away, though in both cases, the time and effort it takes to do that means you would be better off finding another drying system (like hanging / drip dry).

lhalcong · Jan 8, 2014

CatLABS said:
Another question that comes to mind is how do you control the process temp in a paterson tank?

.

As what I do with C-41 right now, is to use a large amount of water bin, heated to exact temp. ~ +0.5F/+1F , and immerse the tank inside the water after each agitation cycle. I do this for the 3:15min it takes for the developer, the other chemicals in C-41 are not so critical. It has worked for me well. However, I realized that E-6 requires longer time inside the two developers and I am seeing that now as a potential problem in my process... How do you guys do it ?

destroya · Jan 8, 2014

i use a large cheap slow cooker. works like a champ. keeps the chems at a nice steady 100

CatLABS · Jan 8, 2014

lhalcong said:
As what I do with C-41 right now, is to use a large amount of water bin, heated to exact temp. ~ +0.5F/+1F , and immerse the tank inside the water after each agitation cycle. I do this for the 3:15min it takes for the developer, the other chemicals in C-41 are not so critical. It has worked for me well. However, I realized that E-6 requires longer time inside the two developers and I am seeing that now as a potential problem in my process... How do you guys do it ?

A jobo processor will heat up and maintain an exact temp, and agitate the tank for you. A lift can help make pour in/out times to be exact to the second, time and time again.

VPooler · Jan 8, 2014

CatLABS said:
A jobo processor will heat up and maintain an exact temp, and agitate the tank for you. A lift can help make pour in/out times to be exact to the second, time and time again.

It also costs an arm and a leg.

polyglot · Jan 8, 2014

Joel_L said:
Over time, stabilizers gum things up. Your reels will become impossible to load. Doesn't matter how well you wash things afterwards.

This is just not true. I've processed a couple hundred rolls of C41 using Fuji and Rollei kits and about 80 of E6 in Fuji X6 (all of the professional grade non-blix kits), and my Jobo spirals still load fine. You just rinse them in 50C water after immediately use and it all comes off.

If you chuck a roll of 120 into a plastic container full of stabiliser, the corners of the film will scratch the adjacent emulsion so there are a couple of frames that become noticeably damaged on each roll. Put the whole spiral into the stabiliser bath.

polyglot · Jan 8, 2014

lhalcong said:
As what I do with C-41 right now, is to use a large amount of water bin, heated to exact temp. ~ +0.5F/+1F , and immerse the tank inside the water after each agitation cycle. I do this for the 3:15min it takes for the developer, the other chemicals in C-41 are not so critical. It has worked for me well. However, I realized that E-6 requires longer time inside the two developers and I am seeing that now as a potential problem in my process... How do you guys do it ?

Only the first developer is time- and temp-critical in E6. It takes about twice as long as a C41 development stage, but a big tub of water should still be fine for 6 minutes. CD needs to be at basically the right temp, but isn't as important as FD because it's mostly to-completion.

Joel_L · Jan 8, 2014

Before I got my Jobo, I used a water bath with a heater. One post mentions a slow cooker, I've heard of others doing this.

lhalcong said:
As what I do with C-41 right now, is to use a large amount of water bin, heated to exact temp. ~ +0.5F/+1F , and immerse the tank inside the water after each agitation cycle. I do this for the 3:15min it takes for the developer, the other chemicals in C-41 are not so critical. It has worked for me well. However, I realized that E-6 requires longer time inside the two developers and I am seeing that now as a potential problem in my process... How do you guys do it ?

CatLABS · Jan 8, 2014

VPooler said:
It also costs an arm and a leg.

That is a subjective assessment.
Over a period of time/number of rolls shot, the cost is easily amortized, and in any case, there is just no way to compare processing with a machine to processing by hand, especially when looking at E-6 (and C41).

Joel_L · Jan 8, 2014

I have never had a problem dropping a roll of 120 into a separate tub of stabilizer, B&W, color neg, or slide. Can't say I have personally had issues with gummed up reels that I have used since new, but then I have always used a separate tub to stabilize in. I have thrown out used reels I've bought because they were gummed up. Might be interesting if others chime in with their experience.

polyglot said:
If you chuck a roll of 120 into a plastic container full of stabiliser, the corners of the film will scratch the adjacent emulsion so there are a couple of frames that become noticeably damaged on each roll. Put the whole spiral into the stabiliser bath.

Joel_L · Jan 8, 2014

Years ago before I moved, I had a real nice darkroom setup part of which was the small CPE2+ with a lift. What a difference in the way you do things. I started with the Patterson system back in 78. When I started color shortly after, I got a UnidrumII and motor base, liked that setup for a good long time ( still have one ). When the CPE2+ came out, got one of those and liked it best. I sold my Jobo a few years ago and missed it immediately, within a couple weeks I bought another one. Today I just process film and scan. Someday I might get back into the whole darkroom setup again. Ya the Jobo is pricey, but I do like it. I still do B&W in a regular tank

CatLABS said:
That is a subjective assessment.
Over a period of time/number of rolls shot, the cost is easily amortized, and in any case, there is just no way to compare processing with a machine to processing by hand, especially when looking at E-6 (and C41).

lhalcong · Jan 15, 2014

Slow Cooker or Turkey Roaster recommendation

destroya said:
i use a large cheap slow cooker. works like a champ. keeps the chems at a nice steady 100

Destroya,

I did a search for slow cookers and also turkey roasters , looked at some of the recommendations , I noticed though that the ones that have temperature adjusting (which I figured is what I need) start at somewhere 140F 150F .,etc which one do you use, ? that keeps it at 100F. Sorry I never used a slow cooker before so I may be wrong , but I rather buy the right one at first.

thanks,

destroya · Jan 15, 2014

this is the one I use. just keep it in the middle of the keep warm range, between 150 and min and it works fine. I put hot tap water from my faucet in to give it a head start, put the chemicals that are in 1 liter glass bottles in and let them sit for about 30 min or so to get to temp. I like the extra large cooker as i gives me more than enough room for my E-6 and C-41 chems at the same time and the film tank as well.

Also, here is a good post from a fellow APUG member who gave me the idea, with pictures and all

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Rival-16-Quart-Roaster-Oven-Wide-Mouth-with-Basic-Lid/2157807

http://www.lamarlamb.com/On-Film/Film-Blog/Developing-Slides

Tetenal E-6 first time

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