Tetenal developers

modafoto · Jan 18, 2005

Hi

I have looked a bit at Tetenal developers at my local pusher and would like to have some words on them.
The developers I have in mind are:

Ultrafin
Ultrafin Plus
Emofin
Neofin
Neofin Doku

Greetings Morten

PieterB · Jan 18, 2005

TIP: Don't use old (read: out of date) neofin blue (or red). But I think it's truly a very thin grain dev. A bit expensive, but a good dev for low-speed films.

Amund · Jan 18, 2005

I have a bottle of Ultrafin that doesn`t get much use. It`s like a not so sharp version of Rodinal. Not very fine grain at all...

Ole · Jan 18, 2005

Neofin is "the original 35mm developer", formulated by Willi Beutler for ADOX KB14, KB17, and KB20 which are essentially the same as todays EFKE KB25, KB50 and KB100. It gives distinct grain, and a very nice gradation to these films. The gradation is of course equally good with the R- and PL- versions of the same films.

Grain is as I said distinct, without being overly coarse.

If you want to try one developer other than Rodinal, I recommend Neofin. Results will be similar, yet different.

I have used Neofin that was out of date by at least five years, possibly ten. It came in plastic vials, today it comes in small glass bottles. It still worked, although significantly slower.

Beutler used Neofin Blau for both slow and fast films, but made the Rot version for fast films and impatient people. He still recommended only Blau. So when Tetenal have now stopped making the red, they are at last complying with Beutlers instructions!

PieterB · Jan 18, 2005

Ole said:
I have used Neofin that was out of date by at least five years, possibly ten. It came in plastic vials, today it comes in small glass bottles. It still worked, although significantly slower.

I've thrown away 5 plastic tubes of red and 4 of blue after my testing. I've developped +20% but with no good results at all. The neofin had a very dark brown color and my fixing was also polluted after development. The negatives were only reproducable digital [1] (very thin) So I don't recommend using old dev on your precious negatives!

[1] (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Ole · Jan 18, 2005

PieterB said:
... So I don't recommend using old dev on your precious negatives! ...

I agree. I developed by inspection, and had a second (different) developer ready.

PieterB · Jan 18, 2005

With KB, you could destroy 36 frames - and that happened...
If you work with LF, like you do (?), that's not an issue indeed

modafoto · Jan 18, 2005

Hmmmm....I stick to what I know...Rodinal. It will never let you down

titrisol · Jan 18, 2005

Is Neofin B a low contrast developer?

PieterB · Jan 18, 2005

I suggest using d76 and/or xtol for negatives rated over 150
But for apx 100, I believe in the church of rodinal....

JohnArs · Jan 18, 2005

I worked for years with Ultrafin plus in the past with Tmax it was a very good combo, till Xtol was anounced and got the first place in the german labor mag test!
Since then I soup all films in Xtol and look never back!

Ole · Jan 19, 2005

titrisol said:
Is Neofin B a low contrast developer?

Contrast is a question of time and agitation more than the developer.

Neofin is a non-solvent developer, which can give any contrast you want (within reason). There are better compensating developers, just as there are better choises for stand development, and better high-contrast developers.

Fotohuis · Jan 19, 2005

Neofin blue is an old recept and almost simmular as the AM20 (Amaloco Photochemicals, the Netherlands) from 1936.
The further development of AM20 is AM50, based on brenzcatechin and hydrochinon. This type of developer does not give a staining effect.

Both mentioned types of developers are working with a high dillution and are delivered in small ampuls (20ml). The concentrated developer in plastic ampuls (AM20-AM50) can be stocked for about 3 years.
AM50 is delivered in a box of 3X20ml packing.

We can recommend this developer for the classical films, not for the modern T-grain type films.

Best regards,

Robert

www.FotohuisRoVo.nl

Ole · Jan 19, 2005

Fotohuis said:
Neofin blue is an old recept and almost simmular as the AM20 (Amaloco Photochemicals, the Netherlands) from 1936.
The further development of AM20 is AM50, based on brenzcatechin and hydrochinon. This type of developer does not give a staining effect.

So they are both what was once called "surface developers". Neofin contains only (?) metol, at one time it also contained a small amount of phenidone together with the metol.
For those who want to know, Brenzcatechin = pyrocatechin.

T-grain films generally work better with developers with more of a solvent effect, not so well with non-solvent. Classic films like EFKE give (as I already said) brilliant result with these developers. I have not tried AM-- developers, nor any other Cat-Q combination.

Dr.Kollig · Jan 22, 2005

Fotohuis said:
Neofin blue is an old recept and almost simmular as the AM20 (Amaloco Photochemicals, the Netherlands) from 1936.
The further development of AM20 is AM50, based on brenzcatechin and hydrochinon. This type of developer does not give a staining effect.

I tested AM 50 on FP4+ and PX and it performed as Robert said, great sharpness, no stain, grain was o.k. I think the Amoloco developers are a bit cheaper if you buy by the bottles and fill them in tiny glass bottles.

Ultrafin Plus works great for me as push developer like TMZ at 6400 or HP5+ at 1600.

Neofin Doku is for docu films developed to a low gamma.

Emufin is a two bath developer based on a paraphenylene derivat, gives low contrast and low visuell sharpness. The first can be cured by doing Push 2, the later is a problem. Fine grain. No good for members of the church of Rodinal!

Hurry up, Tetenal already killed have their range of developers!

I think the Beutler Metol formula is not the same as Neofin formula, which feels more like Brenzcatchine, very sharp to the point where grain size starts to reduce resolution.

Wolfram

fhovie · Jan 22, 2005

I am not so sure - I have seen exceptional results from TMY in XTOL - which only has 30g sulfite/liter, clearly a non solivent developer. Similar results in PC-Tea with no sulfite.

Ole said:
So they are both what was once called "surface developers". Neofin contains only (?) metol, at one time it also contained a small amount of phenidone together with the metol.
For those who want to know, Brenzcatechin = pyrocatechin.

T-grain films generally work better with developers with more of a solvent effect, not so well with non-solvent. Classic films like EFKE give (as I already said) brilliant result with these developers. I have not tried AM-- developers, nor any other Cat-Q combination.

garryl · Jan 22, 2005

Anchell and Troop also make the claim that "Neofin Blue" is pyrocatechin based( The Film Developing Cookbook;chapter 6; pg.56 .
I always thought it was his Metol formula. Anyone know for sure?

Ole · Jan 22, 2005

garryl said:
Anchell and Troop also make the claim that "Neofin Blue" is pyrocatechin based( The Film Developing Cookbook;chapter 6; pg.56 .
I always thought it was his Metol formula. Anyone know for sure?

From the warning on recent bottles, it is Metol. Ten years ago it was Metol/Phenidone. I don't think there has ever been pyrocatechin, pyrogallol or hydroquinone in it.

I have reason to believe it is NOT his metol formula, but it is certainly very closely related - to the point of interchangeability.

And to fhovie - a "true" surface developer will contain less than 5 gram sulfite/liter. Barely enough to keep the developing agent alive for the duration of developing.

Fotohuis · Jan 22, 2005

I think the Amaloco developers are a bit cheaper if you buy by the bottles and fill them in tiny glass bottles.

This range of developers is already cheap: AM50, Eur. 2,61 3X20ml and easy to send.
Further for the life time it is very important that no air is in the ampules. If you use 10ml you have to fill the ampule immediately to 1+1 and exactly to the top.

And correct: Brenzcatechin = pyrocatechin.

AM50 and FP4+ is one of the best combinations.

Best regards,

Robert

www.FotohuisRoVo.nl

Dr.Kollig · Jan 23, 2005

Fotohuis said:
This range of developers is already cheap: AM50, Eur. 2,61 3X20ml and easy to send.
Further for the life time it is very important that no air is in the ampules. If you use 10ml you have to fill the ampule immediately to 1+1 and exactly to the top.

Robert

Peter (Löffler) of Phototec charges me 4.20 for the 3 ampules AM 50 and 2,90 for the refill. He used to have free shipping on 50 plus but changed that to 250. Now if you could throw in some Brokkelkas for my mum, we might get into business .

Just went into the kitchen for some more tea and picked up my last pack of Tetenal Neofin Red, there are information given about the chemistry.
When I used Beutlers formula, stores very well as a A+B system, most films were about 7-8 mins, but APX 100 needed 14-16 mins, 8 mins on APX 100 looked like N-2 or more like dustbin. Similar to Neofin Blue times.

Watch out for my last pack Neofin Red hitting bay, minimum reserve 200, collectors edition comes with black leather box and test print.

Wolfram

Fotohuis · Jan 23, 2005

Unfortunately the Rhine is going downstream here, so the bottle post will never arrive in your area.

rjr · Jan 23, 2005

Robert,

you could use the constant flow of caravans with yellow number tags flowing in the opposite direction during summers. ;-)

Anyone interested in the full Beutler recipe with the three stock solutions? I am intrigued to post it in the chemistry section.

Ole · Jan 23, 2005

rjr said:
Anyone interested in the full Beutler recipe with the three stock solutions? I am intrigued to post it in the chemistry section.

Is that the one I posted last year? Far back on the first page of non-staining developers?

rjr · Jan 23, 2005

Ole,

yes, that one. We should do everything to pull it back to attention. <g>

Roman

Fotohuis · Jan 23, 2005

the constant flow of caravans with yellow number tags

I hate caravans, specially the yellow tag ones, which are mostly on the left side of the autobahn when I am going to Germany or the Czech Republic.

Best regards,

Robert
(from the yellow tag country)

Tetenal developers

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Amund

Ole

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Ole

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Dr.Kollig

fhovie

garryl

Ole

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Dr.Kollig

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Fotohuis

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