Tetenal C41 vs Kodak

Photo Engineer · Sep 30, 2011

Roger;

That is the entire kit for C41 processing using Kodak chemistry. I have several of them here and they are reasonably cost effective when you consider the many alternatives.

PE

Athiril · Sep 30, 2011

Flexicolor is excellent. In fact I would say that's the ideal developer to get.

Given the options to build what you need from bits and pieces, large quantities of either Kodak or Fuji Developer Replenisher + Starter are inexpensive.

You just have to solve your bleach and fix issues which are expensive in large quantities in some cases. I use the Kodak E-6 fixer. Which is very inexpensive.

As for bleach? Well I guess you could split Flexicolor Bleach III with someone, and also get the bleach regenerator, otherwise other options abound, which are going to better than Tetenal kit with blix imho from having used both.

There are developer differences too... Fuji say their developer ideal pH is 10.02 for example for woring/seasoned solution. Kodak says theirs is 10.03.. very close actually. Can't remember what Tetenal is. Thought I had the values for others sitting here somewhere and that they were higher..

michaelbsc · Sep 30, 2011

Photo Engineer said:
Roger;

That is the entire kit for C41 processing using Kodak chemistry. I have several of them here and they are reasonably cost effective when you consider the many alternatives.

PE

So they break up the larger bulk packages and package it as a complete 1L kit?

MB

Photo Engineer · Sep 30, 2011

It is repackaged in a glove box under Nitrogen.

PE

brucemuir · Sep 30, 2011

Photo Engineer said:
Roger;

That is the entire kit for C41 processing using Kodak chemistry. I have several of them here and they are reasonably cost effective when you consider the many alternatives.

PE

PE are you saying that is a "Kit" with bleach III and some type fixer?

It is mislabeled if it is.

I hope they are selling those considering how much bellyaching went on before it was introduced. :confused:

Photo Engineer · Sep 30, 2011

It is indeed mislabeled. It is the entire kit with Developer, Starter, Bleach III, Fixer, and Final Rinse. I have used one and I have 2 more here!

PE

brucemuir · Sep 30, 2011

Photo Engineer said:
It is indeed mislabeled. It is the entire kit with Developer, Starter, Bleach III, Fixer, and Final Rinse. I have used one and I have 2 more here!

PE

Wow, this is valuable info.
Most are scoffing at the price because they are reading the description.

I bet they sell a lot more if they corrected it considering how hard Bleach is to source.

Do you remember capacities for that 1L kit offhand? ? ?

Photo Engineer · Sep 30, 2011

Check the Kodak web site for information on capacity.

The bleach can be regenerated.

PE

brucemuir · Sep 30, 2011

Photo Engineer said:
Check the Kodak web site for information on capacity.

The bleach can be regenerated.

PE

Thank you sir.

Athiril · Sep 30, 2011

Regenerator is cheap if you can get it - http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/27568-REG/Kodak_1939685_Flexicolor_C_41_Bleach_III.html

Developer is cheap - http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...42_Flexicolor_C_41_Developer_Replenisher.html

It doesn't say it's LORR, so replenishment is generally 50 to 70mL per roll, depending upon roll type and length, and the actual film used, LORR is half that.

Photo Engineer · Sep 30, 2011

Or, don't replenish and just extend times!

PE

Roger Cole · Sep 30, 2011

Photo Engineer said:
Roger;

That is the entire kit for C41 processing using Kodak chemistry. I have several of them here and they are reasonably cost effective when you consider the many alternatives.

PE

Ok, but I wouldn't be able to tell that from their listing. It just says "Flexicolor Developer." The price is comparable to Freestyle's house brand in quarts, but the latter also comes in gallons for $70. If they sold this in gallons for a comparable price it would be more attractive but if that includes all components then I agree it's not so bad for a 1 liter kit.

Photo Engineer · Sep 30, 2011

Roger;

I am not in a position to evaluate all of these possibilities. This is Kodak chemistry and is being sold as split kits. You can take this up with the Formulary. In fact, I urge you to do so. They are very reasonable!

PE

warrennn · Sep 30, 2011

I was very interested in using Flexicolor C-41 chemicals until I read Kodak document CIS-211 (2005) which discussed using the chemicals in a small tank. Table 3-3 states that the capacity of the developer (unreplenished) for 120 film is 2-3 rolls per liter. At ~$30 (incl. shipping) for the 1 L kit from the Formulary, this comes to >$10 per roll, more than 2x as expensive as commercial processing where I live. Two questions:

1. Can one develop more rolls than this, safely (i.e., with proper colors/densities/etc.)?

2. If one extends the developer time, is there an established procedure (i.e., increase in time per roll) for this? Does it also apply to the bleach?

Thanks.

Warren Nagourney

Roger Cole · Sep 30, 2011

warrennn said:
I was very interested in using Flexicolor C-41 chemicals until I read Kodak document CIS-211 (2005) which discussed using the chemicals in a small tank. Table 3-3 states that the capacity of the developer for 120 film is 2-3 rolls per liter. At ~$30 (incl. shipping) for the 1 L kit from the Formulary, this comes to >$10 per roll, more than 2x as expensive as commercial processing where I live. Two questions:

1. Can one develop more rolls than this, safely (i.e., with proper colors/densities/etc.)?

2. If one extends the developer time, is there an established procedure (i.e., increase in time per roll) for this? Does it also apply to the bleach?

Thanks.

Warren Nagourney

That sounds absurd. Kodak was always very conservative in their recommendations. Other brands give the capacity of one liter as 8 rolls of 35mm 36 exposure, which I believe has about the same surface area as 120, or more with time extension.

It was another brand (Unicolor) granted but I used to do two 36 exposure rolls in 8 oz. of solution with no problems whatsoever. That would equate to this 8 rolls per quart/liter. That's still $3.62 per roll not counting shipping charges so it isn't all that cheap for develop only, and in fact I quit doing my own in those days when one hour labs sprang up everywhere and would do develop only for a couple of bucks. That of course is no longer the case so $3.62 per roll when I can run down to my basement darkroom and run a couple rolls through the Jobo at will is not so bad - not a bargain, but not bad. It would be much better if it were a bit less though.

warrennn · Sep 30, 2011

I also suspect that I can get more rolls/liter from the Kodak chems. I am currently on my 4th roll using Tetenal chemicals and, to my very untrained eye, don't see any problems. I was worried about increased contrast (the film - Ektar - is already very contrasty) reportedly obtained using blix instead of separate bleach/fix and hence thought that I would try the Flexicolor chemistry. Unless one can get ~10 rolls/liter, it doesn't sound very cost effective.

Warren N

brucemuir · Sep 30, 2011

The Flexi C41 developer is cheap. Not an issue at this time.
Adorama have fresh kits for 5 gallons working solution for just under 30.00 before shipping.
Excellent way to go for me.

The issue is getting a decent Bleach.

It's expensive and hard to find and harder to get shipped.

I found a 5 gallon Fuji bleach just today at Unique but it's up in the 130.00usd to make 5 gallons.
I'm constantly on the lookout.
Sometimes you can get lucky on ePay and I also scored some Bleach III regenerator that I will be testing VERY soon.

warrennn · Oct 1, 2011

Unique has Flexicolor SM bleach for $26.75 per 2.7 liters. I don't know what the "SM" designation means, but it can be used for 11-16 rolls of 120 film according to the Kodak document (which states that the bleach has twice the capacity as the developer).

wn

michaelbsc · Oct 1, 2011

Photo Engineer said:
It is indeed mislabeled. It is the entire kit with Developer, Starter, Bleach III, Fixer, and Final Rinse. I have used one and I have 2 more here!

PE

Man it sure would have been nice to know this some time ago.

Athiril · Oct 1, 2011

You can get 33.3 litres of ECN-2 bleach cheaply, you need to supply B&H or someone else etc with the Kodak catalogue number.

That process still requires a stop after developer, and not to stop with the bleach iirc, so at that point you may just want to mix your own bleach.

brucemuir · Oct 1, 2011

warrennn said:
Unique has Flexicolor SM bleach for $26.75 per 2.7 liters. I don't know what the "SM" designation means, but it can be used for 11-16 rolls of 120 film according to the Kodak document (which states that the bleach has twice the capacity as the developer).

wn

The "SM" line is designed for Noritsu minilabs but you could certainly use the bleach component in a small tank line.

It uses a different replenishment rate than the straight Flexicolor.

hpulley · Oct 1, 2011

Fuji 800 is just grainy. Have you had any processed elsewhere? That film at pro labs is also grainy as heck, especially if you underexpose it. If you want high speed color film get new Portra 400 and shoot it at 400, 800 or 1600 and do push processing at 800 or 1600. Works great, much less grain.

That sounds like a lot of agitation. My kit's instructions says 5s every 30s. Not sure if that will accentuate the grain but the instructions also mention that a magenta cast may be caused by developer temperature too high or over-vigorous agitation so I would try just 5s every 30s (not longer at the beginning).

madgardener said:
It was the Unicolor (Tetenal) kit from freestyle. I am using a Patterson super system 4 tank, and was using Fuji 800 speed film, 24 exposure.

The water temperature was between 101-103, The agitation was the same throughout the process. Constant agitation for the first 15 seconds, and 15 seconds for every minute thereafter.

For the wash, instead of using my Patterson wash hose, I manually rinsed (fill, shake, dump) for 5 minutes, stabilizer for 30-45 seconds, and then hang up to dry.

The first 6 rolls came out ok, but were grainy, and the last 2 (the kit said it was good for 8 rolls) had a magenta cast on the negatives. I realize 800 speed film is going to be a little grain, but this reminded me of the old Disc film, it was that bad.

Athiril · Oct 1, 2011

Flexicolor SM is a non-replenished process for 'small tank' usage.

Photo Engineer said:
Or, don't replenish and just extend times!

PE

Hmm my post seems to have disappeared.

Do you have suggestions on time extensions at X roll mark? Or to copy Tetenal's instructions for time extension, since it's designed to do a similar thing at the same time and temp etc?

Roger Cole · Oct 1, 2011

hpulley said:
Fuji 800 is just grainy. Have you had any processed elsewhere? That film at pro labs is also grainy as heck, especially if you underexpose it. If you want high speed color film get new Portra 400 and shoot it at 400, 800 or 1600 and do push processing at 800 or 1600. Works great, much less grain.

That sounds like a lot of agitation. My kit's instructions says 5s every 30s. Not sure if that will accentuate the grain but the instructions also mention that a magenta cast may be caused by developer temperature too high or over-vigorous agitation so I would try just 5s every 30s (not longer at the beginning).

Agitation shouldn't be a problem. I've run mine in both conventional stainless tanks in a water bath and in a Jobo with continuous rotary agitation with no apparent differences.

hpulley · Oct 1, 2011

Roger Cole said:
Agitation shouldn't be a problem. I've run mine in both conventional stainless tanks in a water bath and in a Jobo with continuous rotary agitation with no apparent differences.

It says over-vigorous agitation can cause magenta casts. Continuous agitation may be fine but doing hard inversions might be too much. I'm just reading the instructions in case they help. Specifically it says magenta cast may be caused by "1. Developer too warm. 2. Overly-vigorous agitation in conventional tank."

Tetenal C41 vs Kodak

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