Tetenal C-41 rapid kit very dark negatives

Mr P · Oct 25, 2014

Hi everyone,
I'm a newbie to this site and colour processing.

I've searched the forum and seen similar, but nothing exactly matching my problem

I've just bought the Tetenal C-41 rapid negative kit and tried processing two Agfa Vista plus 200 films. I used a water bath keeping all chemicals at 100F and used a two reel Paterson manual tank.
The problem is, one negative is perfect and the other is very dark brown with a few green tinges. The chemicals are brand new and were just mixed.

What could have caused this and can I save this negative? I've tried Blix, rinse and stabilising again, but still no change.

Many thanks,

Parker

bvy · Oct 25, 2014

Welcome. Pictures help -- especially if you can scan both strips alongside each other. Given what we know, if one film came out good and the other bad, and you processed them together, one has to suspect the film -- that it was expired, stored poorly, exposed to light, or something else.

Mr P · Oct 27, 2014

I've attached a photo of the negatives. sorry about the quality (I don't have a scanner, so they're a photo on my phone.) They do have a couple of reflections, but you can see the quality difference.
I processed another couple of rolls today and they're still quite dark (but not this bad).

Rudeofus · Oct 28, 2014

Can you confirm that these two test strips were processed in the same drum in the same dev run?

Please interpret the silence in this thread not as lack of interest, but as complete puzzlement with your results on our side.

mnemosyne · Oct 28, 2014

Film outdated? If the film was fresh, is it possible that the film was fogged (exposed to any form of light) while being loaded in the tank or thereafter?
maybe related:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Mr P · Oct 28, 2014

They were both the same films, bought at the same time and processed in the same tank in the same development run with fresh chemicals. I loaded the tanks at the same time in a light tight room. Even Tetenal themselves have no answer.

I processed two more films yesterday and they have both turned out dark, but nowhere near as dark. Although these 2 from this second run were films I shot about 6 years ago and have just found.

LikeAPolaroid · Oct 28, 2014

I suspect you used chemicals enough for just one roll of film. The other got fogged as it was not properly developed/bleached/fixed.

polyglot · Oct 28, 2014

LikeAPolaroid may have it. the second one looks like it wasn't bleached properly.

What tank and chemical volume did you use?

Mr P · Oct 28, 2014

I used a 2 reel Paterson with 600ml of each fluid. The rinse was three minutes using a Paterson force film washer at approx 95 degrees.

Thomas Bertilsson · Oct 28, 2014

Is it possible that the dark roll was loaded in the top reel of the tank, and that the reel somehow moved during development such that the chemicals did not submerge the film properly during bleach/fix/blix?
Some people use a rubber band that they wrap tightly around the center column of the Paterson tank, to lock down the reels and prevent them from moving up or down, in and out of the chemistry. I don't know how much room is above the 600ml chemistry line of a 2-reel Paterson tank.

It seems improbable that the chemistry would have done it. Which leaves either the film or the way it was processed. Since the film was from the same batch, the logical approach would be to suspect the process. Or monsters.

Rudeofus · Oct 28, 2014

Polyglot&LikeAPolaroid: Mr. P said he rebleached with no change in results - this would speak against poor bleaching. The images do look fogged to me, but I am lost for explanations how this could happen. Most common fog (from light leaks, chemical impurities, ...) would be either very inhomogeneous, or it would have affected both rolls in the same way.

Thomas Bertilsson · Oct 28, 2014

Rudeofus said:
Polyglot&LikeAPolaroid: Mr. P said he rebleached with no change in results - this would speak against poor bleaching. The images do look fogged to me, but I am lost for explanations how this could happen. Most common fog (from light leaks, chemical impurities, ...) would be either very inhomogeneous, or it would have affected both rolls in the same way.

I wonder if they were shot in the same camera. Perhaps the darker roll got exposed to heat somehow, which fogged it? Or maybe exposed to light while in camera somehow?
The sources for fogging are: chemical, heat, light, cosmic radiation. Am I missing any source?

bvy · Oct 28, 2014

Two 35mm reels in a two reel Paterson tank with 600ml of solution (my own procedure) don't suggest coverage problems to me. An actual scan would better reveal (or rule out) uneven development, but both films look uniformly and fully processed. I still think the culprit is the film itself -- expired, fogged, poorly stored, or some such.

blockend · Oct 29, 2014

Repeat the process with two fresh films. If they turn out okay, put the glitch down to gremlins. If you still have a problem, you have light or chemical fogging and need to examine both possibilities.

Thomas Bertilsson · Oct 29, 2014

blockend said:
Repeat the process with two fresh films. If they turn out okay, put the glitch down to gremlins. If you still have a problem, you have light or chemical fogging and need to examine both possibilities.

Or heat fogging. Is it possible that the fogged roll somehow got exposed to high heat at some point?

Mr P · Oct 29, 2014

Both rolls of film were kept in the same place before exposing, during and after. So don't think it could be temperature, unless the store I bought them from stored one differently. I'll buy a fresh roll from Silverprint during my break this week and try with that.

M Carter · Oct 29, 2014

Couple things that may be helpful:

If you suspect your reels are bouncing in the tank... with many tanks you can take a chunk of 1/2" PVC pipe and cut it as sort of a "spacer" that will lock the reels down. I use that when processing 35 in a 120-sized tank. The pipe slips over the center tube and takes the space between the reel and the lid.

If your processing kit is good for multiple rolls... shoot a whole roll of the same image, preferably artificial light (so variations in clouds or time won't affect it). Perhaps bracket in groups of three (1 under, on, and 1 over). In the changing bag, cut the film into 6" strips, and process 1 strip at a time. Experiment with push and pull processing times. You can dial in your true film speed and check the effects of push/pull on the brackets. You may find underexposing 1 half stop and pushing a full stop (or whatever) is what really pops a given film (this more effective with E6, but you can learn a lot). Even just running the first 6" of your roll to double check processing before doing 2 rolls can be a great idea. (Pro labs call this a "snip test").

Tetenal C-41 rapid kit very dark negatives

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