Tetenal C-41 (rapid 2bath kit) + Paterson tanks questions (see resulting images)

[sperera]

Hi all, forgive me but I don't seem to find the specifics to what i'd like to know.....I bought the Tetenal C-41 kit (rapid 2 bath) kit for use it with Paterson universal tanks = hand agitation and inversions etc

So I developed colour negative for the first time the other evening....

This was my procedure correct me if I could have done anything better, differently

I mixed up a 1 litre working solution to cover the 2 x rolls of Kodak Portrait 800 (120 film) I was developing. I used a larger Paterson tank that holds the two reels for 120 film.

Step 1: When the developer hit 38 degrees (I had it in the sink warming up with hotter water) I developed for 3 mins 15 seconds using agitation with rod for 10 seconds then inverted the tank x 4 times (counted one every time it was back facing up) every 30 secs
Step 2: Blix: 4 mins (same agitation and inversion)
Step 3: Rinse: 3 mins (put the thermometer under the running tap and when it was 38 degrees used that water to wash the film inside the tank)
THIS IS MY FIRST QUESTION - WHAT is the correct RINSE technique for this set up? - basically I filled up the tank and did a few inversions and then dumped and repeated until 3 mins were up
Step 4: Stabiliser - agitated and then left for 1 min

Of the above I put the chemicals back into separate bottles so now I have Dev / Blix / Stab in bottles that have developed 2 rolls of 120 film

Question 2: what are the processing times for subsequent rolls and when should i dump the chemicals and mix up FRESH from the remaining stock the 2.5 litre kit brought.

ANY ADVICE MORE THAN WELCOME......

 

[trendland]

I seams to be so you have done it right.
Follow just the instruction of your Tetenal kit.
FROM mind you have to add 10% of developer time to any additional film.The capacity of the full kit should end with the
10. film.But pls. notice the advice before I told you the wrong.It is just from mind.
What temperatures belong you should have most respect to accuracy.
This is to the CD.The other bath are with more tollerance.So you havn't be worry to make this wrong so much.
I personaly would give the following baths after CD give a bit more time.
Add them + 10% - (+15%) so you can be very sure it is enough.
The most attention you should give the final results.You should soon enlarge some frames of your c41. If the result is ok. you well done the work with your Tetenal kit.
Is something wrong you should come soon to früher corections of your workflow.It depends to some different parameters.
But you as the upcoming expert in c41 have lots of possibilitys to modify your development.
At last if you havea little more experience
you should be able to reach results of good comercial labs.
But now it seams so you have better results (if everything was ok) than bad comercial labs.Isn't it ? Thats exactly the task.To be better (from first beginning) than bad labs. To lower costs.
with regards

 

[sperera]

thanks for the reply...most interested in knowing...assuming I have done it right as you say on developer time etc for my NEXT two rolls of film which I will be doing this weekend.....so if DEV is 3mins 15 secs on the first two rolls with FRESH chemistry what time for the next two rolls with the already USED chemistry aforementioned......

 

[trendland]

Sorry I am not realy sure with longer developer times.May be I mixed something. But it has to stated within your Tetenal instruction.
3' min 15" sec. At 38,7 degree C is the standard. May be you don't come up with longer the time from film to film until the CD is exausted. (have had a bad night tonight.....).
Mostly the c41 kit is able to develope more films.If it is stated to 10 films you may have 12 films.
Some reached 16 films but therefore you should have a test before.
It is strongly depending to the time you have all your films finished.
If you develope next films over the next weeks it is ok.If you do this the next days it is best.Because the CD react with oxygen and the longer it is in use the more it is to the point it is exausted.
with regards

 

[trendland]

Well - I have it now : THE first 4 film (you are right - the developer is fresh then) you have you normal 3'15'.
The next 4 films you longer CD 3'30",
to the next 4 films you have CD 3'45",
The last 4 films you have CD 4'00".
THE same is with your Blix : 4' - 6' - 10' 15'.
With seperation every 4 films.
with regards

 

[trendland]

Next failure : 37,8 degree (I mentioned 38,7) ....but 38,0 C is Tetenal Kit recomandstion - so it is ok to you.

with regards

PS : Now I am awake - I would say

 

[sperera]

you are very kind to take the time to respond thanks for the information!

 

[trendland]

Ok last issue I would make a little better.
YOU have CD with temperature over 38,0 C and messure while waiting it reached 38,0 C then start the development.
If you would be more accurate you should do it to one time again just with hot water (as an adjustment of your set up).
Wait until your water developer is cooled to reach 38,0 C.
Start your simulated development *without film . After 3'15" you open your paterson tank and messure your water developer bath.
It may have 36,5 degree or something in the near (depending from volume and room temperature)
Next step is to find out the aretmetic mean to reach 38,0 C.
Therefore you beginn with higher temperature to your next two 120 films.
May be at 39,0 C ? I can't say - you'll find out. At the end of your 3'15" you can control again temperatures.
(In this example it has to be exactly 37,0 C so the aretmetic middle would be indeed 38,0 C from Tetenal recomandation)
Because you would reach better results that some comming from good comercial labs - wouldn't you ...?

with regards

 

[sperera]

......

is there a device one can buy to stick the Paterson universal tank in to get accurate temperatures? perhaps from the cooking world? medicine world?

I have done two jobs with film recently....one was developed in the lab and the second I did myself and I am very happy with my results....BUT....I don't know otherwise....as with black and white development you can make it look finer grain by technique etc as we all know.....

 

[sperera]

here's another shot from the roll I developed...as you can see i was at the edge of the exposure...the thing is this is for outside panels that will have a big enlargement of the images so I have to make sure the grain is controlled....

 

[sperera]

here's another one...I hope its still ok to post images in these forums its been a long time since I have been around here!

 

[sperera]

here's another....

The shoot notes in case anyone is interested - I shot with Hasselblad 500CM and 2000FCM with 80mm Planar and 50mm Distagon using Kodak Portra 800 fresh new film....rated at 400asa where I could and if not 800 asa.....I was very tight on exposure as ambient light was low in there.....f4 at 800asa with no lights.....I used a Multiblitz V6 LED light with its battery pack - no flash - I metered with Sekonic spot meter when shooting the furnace and flames and did an average of the illumination coming from it knowing i would be a few stops under in the rest of the area but that was good for more ambient moody look.....I also knew the latitude of my beloved film stocks would help me out......

 

[sperera]

......the 'problem'' with the images is that they are going on exterior signage at large magnification, like I said earlier, so I really want to nail the processing of C-41 to rest assured I have done everything I could on that side of things.......

 

[trendland]

Wow - didn't thought about you are a proffesion ? So you are changing now to film...hmmm - good idea.
TO me the results are quite good.And now comming to higher enlargements - therefore the need of smaler grain?
It isn't real possible from developing to have a great impact to characteristics like smaler grain from my point.
It is total differrent than in bw.
There it may be normal business.
THE optimal doing is to change the format - here to you - from 6x6 to 4x5 (inch).
But of cause you don't want this now.
No way to come with longer times ?
The grain from some ISO 100 is smaler (in general).
You should work with avaible light again I would like to say.
But perhaps it may be possible also with
ISO 400.
But the two Kodak Portras makes no big difference - I know.
Don't beat me for state this now but
Kodak Vision3 50D is the champion with smal grain to me.
But it has just ISO 50.....hmmm?
Curious about what others would prefer in this case you mentioned.

with regards

 

[trendland]

Seconic spot meter...I have it also !
Yes and the LED booster light isn't realy visable it looks like avaible light.
Go ahead with such aestetic special in color look.
with regards

 

[trendland]

Okay seeing the real problem now - sorry from being no native speaker so some failures from translating are normal.
You have your 2 films exposed with urgend need to make big enlargements.
Now you would do everything mostly correct - aha ?
Therefore you ask to next development in regard of grain etc?
But friend what should I say - you've done everything correct (just noticed from translating) as I see you used E.I. 400 with Portra800.
Go just ahead pls.
with regards

 

[sperera]

thanks for taking the time....what is your native language.....yo hablo español también claro.....coincidentally I am also shooting a 'making of glass' short for them using 16mm Kodak Vision3 film (500T) and my Aaton XTR 16mm camera.....that will be in January that I start filming...these photographs are good to put me back in the film mind.....BTW I have never not shot film....I use digital too of course but always had film cameras.....I started in 1988

On the light i was using a gel to make the glow more orange!

 

[WilmarcoImaging]

Nice images sperera. If you want less grain, a slower film gives you this. If you want more saturation, using Kodak Ektar is a way to do this.

 

[trendland]

Aaton yes I remember - but the company is not exising any more as I know.
To the good old times I used an Arri ST sometimes.
Later I shot with a Moviecam in 35mm.

with regards

PS : Remember a dokumentary I was ask for - but the shooting goes to an expert with own 16mm camera in 1993.
The director informed me about some problems (hope it was not you "Aaton equipment").....- never mind - just a little joke - but he has bought his own Aaton from the filming budget.
So the director asked me about what is to do now. (but I realy did not wanted the job by this way).
Later I saw the film on TV and suddenly I remembered what I was told before : "
He is allways using so much filters sometimes 4 filters at one time that can't be normal"....???
THERE WAS NO SATURATION,THERE WAS NO CONTRAST LEFT.THE COLORS LOOKED LIKE FROM ARCHIVED FILMS IN 1952 !!!
And this was not a special look the Aaton
DOP has intended..
But you'll Do it fine I've no doubts.

Bon chance

 

[sperera]

im happy with the grain of Portra 800 - goes with the subject matter......regardless cos of the very low light levels in there I didn't want to have to put lights all over the place as these guys are producing glass and I have to work around them not stop them working..even if we did stage a few things but glass is a medium that has to be photographed fast.......Portra 160 wasn't an option, less so Ektar.....I prefer colour negative for its latitude

 

[sperera]

I'm going to film using Kodak Vision3 500T film stock rated at EI500...these photography sessions in there have prepared me to shoot with the movie camera no doubt.....I have a Cooke Varokinetal 9-50mm zoom at 2.5T and shooting standard 16mm format.....

 

[Rudeofus]

There is three things I would like to add:

1. Don't worry too much about final wash temperature. Warm water will work a lot better and faster than cold water, but anything between 30 and 45°C will work.
2. Wash more. Three minutes appears to be the absolute minimum to me. You don't have to agitate the whole time, but do let your film soak for 10-20 minutes and observe the pink wash water come out.
3. Since you process 120 roll film, think about using a stop bath between CD and BLIX. Many people, including myself, have seen uneven development patterns when going directly from CD to BLIX, especially with roll film and especially when BLIX was reused. Dilute white vinegar is very cheap even if used single shot, and will work well.

 

[sperera]

thanks for the advice much appreciated....diluted white vinegar? how diluted???? like white vinegar from the food stores right?

 

[Rudeofus]

thanks for the advice much appreciated....diluted white vinegar? how diluted???? like white vinegar from the food stores right?

Target concentration of Acetic Acid is about 1% for single shot use. Typical white vinegar is about 5% Acetic Acid, so you'd dilute about 1:4. If the "white vinegar" you can buy in food stores is mostly Acetic Acid and water, then you can use it.

 

[Jeff L]

+1 on the addition of the stop bath in between CD and BLIX. I was experiencing uneven development - PE said this step would fix it, it did.