Tetanol Neofin Blue info wanted

moltogordo · Oct 24, 2014

Just been given 4 bottles of the 5 contained in a pack of Tetanol Neofin Blue by a friend who's going to India and Australia for 6 months. I don't know much about this developer, and I'd like to give it a whirl.

I have both 35mm and 120 size cameras available - what are the suggestions as to what film I should give a try with this developer, and what are your recommendations on mixing it? What type of subject matter might show the film/developer combination off that you recommend?

Thanks!

Keith Tapscott. · Oct 24, 2014

moltogordo said:
Just been given 4 bottles of the 5 contained in a pack of Tetanol Neofin Blue by a friend who's going to India and Australia for 6 months. I don't know much about this developer, and I'd like to give it a whirl.

I have both 35mm and 120 size cameras available - what are the suggestions as to what film I should give a try with this developer, and what are your recommendations on mixing it?

Thanks!

You simply add the entire contents of one of the glass bottles to your measuring vessel and top up with water to make 500ml of working strength developer. Only mix it just before use. Ilford Pan F Plus is a good choice.

NickLimegrove · Oct 24, 2014

I use half a bottle, water to make 300ml for one 35mm film in my Jobo 1520, so that's a 1+19 dilution. It's been my standard developer for the late Efke KB50, and should be great for any other low- to medium-speed film as well. As suggested by Tetenal, I extend dev time by about 1.3 -- as opposed to factor 1.0 for the 1+16 dilution that you get using Keith's recipe (which is also one of the options suggested in the data sheet). If in that dilution you want to develop two films rather than one, the data sheet says extend dev time by 1.2.

NB: Neofin was conceived during the ›acutance era‹, as part of an approach that aimed at producing negatives that required the least possible exposure without exceeding normal gamma values. With many films, Neofin will give a ›true‹ speed increase. Overexposure is unnecessary to harmful: »expose thriftily, and develop generously« (W. Beutler, 1950s). I expose my KB50s at about EI 80 without losing shadow detail or getting overly contrasty negs.

Gerald C Koch · Oct 24, 2014

While Neofin Blue can be used with all sizes of film it is usually used for 35mm or smaller size due to its cost. In addition acutance is less a consideration as film size increases. For many years it was my developer of choice in combination with Kodak Pan-X. They made a lovely combination. If you are able to mix your own and you like the Neofin results consider the Beutler formula. It is similar to the Neofin in the negatives that it produces. It is very economical and uses only 3 ingredients; metol, sodium sulfite, and sodium carbonate.

Keith Tapscott. · Oct 24, 2014

Gerald C Koch said:
While Neofin Blue can be used with all sizes of film it is usually used for 35mm or smaller size due to its cost. In addition acutance is less a consideration as film size increases. For many years it was my developer of choice in combination with Kodak Pan-X. They made a lovely combination. If you are able to mix your own and you like the Neofin results consider the Beutler formula. It is similar to the Neofin in the negatives that it produces. It is very economical and uses only 3 ingredients; metol, sodium sulfite, and sodium carbonate.

Interesting, as the Tetenal developer contains Metol, Phenidone and Hydroquinone.

Gerald C Koch · Oct 24, 2014

Keith Tapscott. said:
Interesting, as the Tetenal developer contains Metol, Phenidone and Hydroquinone.

Hence my use of the word similar. The idea behind both developers IS the same. It is based on the controlled exhaustion of the developing agent(s) at the activation centers in the emulsion. Edge effects are increased giving the impression of increased sharpness. The idea was suggested by Willi Beutler and I suspect that this formulation was the basis of the first version of Neofin. The formulation of Neofin Blue has changed several times over the years as evidenced by the various versions of the MSDS. The very first version gave only metol as the developing. Then hydroquinone was added and then phenisone.

NickLimegrove · Oct 24, 2014

Gerald C Koch said:
The idea was suggested by Willi Beutler and I suspect that this formulation was the basis of the first version of Neofin.

yup, in his book (which, in some passages, is more of an advertising pamphlet), Beutler says that commercial Neofin yields an even higher EFS and even thinner negs than the classic formula he popularized.

Arklatexian · Oct 24, 2014

AntiLynd said:
yup, in his book (which, in some passages, is more of an advertising pamphlet), Beutler says that commercial Neofin yields an even higher EFS and even thinner negs than the classic formula he popularized.

When we received the first Neofins where I worked, there were two, Neofin Red and Neofin Blue. We sold much more Blue than we did Red. Later Neofin Blue was changed and many of our customers did not like the change. That is when people started making "Beutler's Solution" at home, and when used with Panatomic X (Kodak) was hard to beat. Do any of you know what Neofin Red was good for and do any of you use Beutler's with Ilford's "slow" film whose name escapes me at the moment.......Regards

Gerald C Koch · Oct 24, 2014

Neofin Red was formulated to be used with medium to high speed films. It was never very popular and was discontinued many years ago.

Arklatexian · Oct 25, 2014

Gerald C Koch said:
Neofin Red was formulated to be used with medium to high speed films. It was never very popular and was discontinued many years ago.

Gerald, thank you very much. And I did finally remember the Ilford name: Pan-F........Regards

NickLimegrove · Oct 28, 2014

Neofin Blau/Rot Data Sheet

BTW, here's a scan I did of the Neofin instructions (or its interesting passages), in case anyone needs it:

Big_Lynx · Sep 2, 2016

Frankly speaking I am not sure how it works. I have small (30-50 ml) bottle od Tetenal Neofin Blue. When I want to have 500 ml of working developer should I just add water to contents of the bottle to complete dilution to this capacity? To define development time (e.g. on the base of http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php) I need to locate a film and multiple development time by a factor from the table above. Ok but factor for 500ml is 1.0. How to interpret then "stock" what means rather no water at all?

Gerald C Koch · Sep 2, 2016

Each bottle or vial is designed to make 500 ml of working strength (stock) developer. Once diluted the developer should be used promptly as it keeps for only a short time. Should you wish to develop only one roll then the remaining half should be transferred to a small bottle which should be topped off with water to exclude air. Each film has a single developing time for its format. For best results it must be used at 20C.

miha · Sep 2, 2016

Big_Lynx said:
Frankly speaking I am not sure how it works.

it's quite simple.

I have small (30-50 ml) bottle od Tetenal Neofin Blue. When I want to have 500 ml of working developer should I just add water to contents of the bottle to complete dilution to this capacity?

Yes. Total volume should be between 300 and 700 ml.

To define development time (e.g. on the base of http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php) I need to locate a film and multiple development time by a factor from the table above.
Ok but factor for 500ml is 1.0. How to interpret then "stock" what means rather no water at all?

If your final volume is 500 ml, just follow the times given by Tetenal. If your final volume is 300 ml, you should shorten those developing times by the factor of 0,6 or lenghten them by 1,3 if your final volume is 700 ml. In case you tank needs 250 ml and you only intend to develop one film, make 250 ml of the final volume by using only half of the developer, in this case factor is 1,0 again. Fill up the vial to the brim with water and store it for later use.

Gerald C Koch · Sep 2, 2016

I apologize it has been a VERY long time since I have used Neofin Blue. Due to its cost I have mostly used the Beutler developer instead. The older instructions mention only a dilution to 500 ml so there was no factors. Then too using NB with other than 35mm film (for which it was designed) seems a waste of money. The older instructions also stated that you could develop a second roll in the used developer if it is done immediately after the first.

GRHazelton · Sep 2, 2016

Back in the late 50s my Father and I mixed up the Beutler formula and used it with great satisfaction on Plus X, which we rated at IIRC, about ASA 200 or so. The negatives were best printed on grade 3 paper; we used Luminos which was excellent and economical. I don't remember the time, but we probably souped at 20C, As has been noted elsewhere it is not a contrasty developer. Its high acutance lends great apparent sharpness, even though the grain is somewhat evident.

Here is a good discussion by APUG member Gerald C Koch:

Willi Beutler in his book was quite adamant in his directions for using this developer. This also included agitation. Intermittent agitation 2 gentle inversions (5 sec) every minute. Off hand I would not personally recommend it for continuous agitation. In order to get the best results film exposure must be spot on. You want a thin negative that will print correctly on grade 3 paper. Time and temperature must be carefully maintained. This is not a developer for anyone whose technique is sloppy.

The usual dilution for the Beutler developer is 1 part A + 1 part B plus 8 parts water. Some people misread inaccurate instructions given as a proportion 1:1:10 to mean 1+1+10.

This developer is in the class of acutance developers. As such they do not produce fine grain. They depend on edge effects to give the illusion of higher resolution. This is the reason for developing to a thin negative. These developers are designed to develop the emulsion primarily at its surface. They do this by controlled exhaustion of the developing agent. Hence the very limited agitation. You do not want fresh developer to be constantly applied to the emulsion surface. Acutance developers are intended for 35mm or smaller films. There is little to recommend Beutler for MF or LF films except its economy.

Solution A (Metol and sulfite) keeps for about 3 month in partially filled bottles. Solution B will last for about a year. The main problem with it is absorbing carbon dioxide from the air.

Some people advocate adding a very small amount of potassium iodide to each liter of working solution. This was discussed by Geoffrey Crawley. Usually the amount is given as 2.5 to 5 ml of a 0.001% solution. Yes, you are reading this last statement correctly. The problem is that a plain iodide solution does not keep. The iodide tends to disproportionate to iodine and iodate ion.

See the thread Willi Beutler's fine grain/high resolution - what's the down side? in APUG's BW film paper chemistry forum.

I Ishould see what Formulary has available....

miha · Sep 2, 2016

Hi Gerald, I imagine Neofin went through many incarnations during its lifetime, even name changes from Neodin, to Neodyn and finaly to Neofin.

Gerald C Koch · Sep 2, 2016

We will of course never know what the original Neofin Blue contained. However since the requirement that an MSDS for it must be published it has had several incarnations.

psmithp · Jul 9, 2022

Gerald C Koch said:
I apologize it has been a VERY long time since I have used Neofin Blue. Due to its cost I have mostly used the Beutler developer instead. The older instructions mention only a dilution to 500 ml so there was no factors. Then too using NB with other than 35mm film (for which it was designed) seems a waste of money. The older instructions also stated that you could develop a second roll in the used developer if it is done immediately after the first.

The German and Polish instructions (but not the English or French) day that you can use the solution twice but say nothing about extending the development time. Woul you know anything about this ? Remarkably the new Parvofin can be used twice without extending the development time?

Gerald C Koch said:
We will of course never know what the original Neofin Blue contained. However since the requirement that an MSDS for it must be published it has had several incarnations.

Tetanol Neofin Blue info wanted

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