Testing a silver gelatin photograph

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Fintan

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For the purposes of a monochrome competition that has separate digital and darkroom print sections, what would be the best way to [non destructively] tell a darkroom print from a digital print [low cost also].

In many cases the naked eye can tell but I'd rather be more scientific to be absolutely certain.

Any advice on topic appreciated.

Fintan


[Sorry for the triple post, I got caught in the print-at-the-end-of-thread-title bug :D]
 

Roger Hicks

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For the purposes of a monochrome competition that has separate digital and darkroom print sections, what would be the best way to [non destructively] tell a darkroom print from a digital print [low cost also].

Dear Fintan,

With a moderately powerful loupe you should be able to see either grain or the dots of an ink-jet -- unless it's a dye-sub (do they do these in B+W?) or made with the better dedicated-ink microdrop printers. Another possibility is metamerism, i.e. does it look different under tungsten and daylight? If it's laser-printed on real B+W paper I'm not sure how easy it would be to separate them, or whether you'd consider it darkroom or digital.

My own belief is that if you can't tell 'em apart, they should be judged together anyway -- and if it turns out to be digital, the winner gets an extra prize for producing a digital mono print that doesn't look like either sh*t (most) or a completely different process (e.g. Cone Editions Piezography).

Cheers,

R.
 
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Fintan

Fintan

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thanks for the ideas folks, I'd love a non-visual method that didnt involve any type of interpretation like say a litmus paper test for example
 

David A. Goldfarb

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If you want it to be non-destructive (well, silver prints don't smudge, for instance, when rubbed with a cloth), I think you'll have to rely on visual methods. It's not that difficult, really, if you are accustomed to looking at a lot of prints.

Another photographer once asked me to make a few prints prints for a set that he was putting together for an appraiser who gives workshops about appraising photographs. The full set was around 20 prints from the same neg, all different processes including silver on enlarging paper, Azo, pt/pt, cyanotype, digital from an office printer, Piezography by a skilled digital printer, xerox copy on OHP film mounted on a white board and matted, a silver print made from a 35mm neg exposed at the same time as the 8x10" neg used for the other processes, etc. They were mounted in a uniform way and numbered on the back. I could identify most of them, except for a few that were made with one process over another process. The digital prints were obviously digital (which is not to say that they were good or bad prints, but they didn't look anything like any wet process).

The workshop participants, who were mostly art and antiques appraisers interested in getting into photographs, could only identify 2 or 3. I think one may have gotten about 7, and this was someone who worked in the photo department of a museum or auction house, as I recall.

If you had a "litmus" test, what would you do with hybrid processes--digital negs for traditional processes, silver prints made with the DeVere digital enlarger, Lambda/Lightjet to silver gelatin or RA-4 type paper? Visual inspection would be the only way to determine the process.
 
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For the purposes of a monochrome competition that has separate digital and darkroom print sections, what would be the best way to [non destructively] tell a darkroom print from a digital print [low cost also].

In many cases the naked eye can tell but I'd rather be more scientific to be absolutely certain.

Any advice on topic appreciated.

Fintan


[Sorry for the triple post, I got caught in the print-at-the-end-of-thread-title bug :D]

Run the print on a microdensitometer ( reflection) and the periodicity will show up. This procedure can even be automated by taking the fourrier transform of the densitometer reading and you will observe a resonance peak at the spatial frequency of the print. However, with a little experience one can see it with the naked eye.

Jed
 

Neal

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Dear Fintan,

I find that scanning a digitally produced print at high resolution will reveal the regular print pattern. You won't need to scan the whole thing, just a portion.

Neal Wydra
 

Sparky

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If we're talking about inkjet prints, it's much easier than that. Hold up the print to reflect a lightsource. The inks used will usually have a very different reflectivity than the paper base. And usually each of the ink colors will have a different reflectivity from eachother. They look like hell by reflected light. And if we're talking about lightjet prints, well, there IS no difference between a lightjet print and a C-Print. Same thing. Though you may still be able to detect scanning/sharpening artifacts (look for overemphasized edge details, etc...).
 

David A. Goldfarb

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Another feature that I've seen in Chromira prints is some mottling in large areas of solid color like open sky that doesn't look like grain or any kind of film artifact. It's usually only visible up close. I haven't noticed this in LightJets, but it may just be the examples I've seen.
 

Michel Hardy-Vallée

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You can also spot instances of pixellation or posterization, two of the most common errors of less-than-careful printers. Shadow areas with faint details are a good place to look for pixellation because you might find a single isolate pixel a tad paler than the dark background. Posterization will show as abrupt changes in gradations.
 
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