Testing a Leica M4

seanE · Feb 12, 2016

The post man just brought a lovely little Leica m4 all raped in bubble film.
The seller gives a 1 month warranty with his cameras, So I want to test it fully.
Whats concerning me is..
Film advance ''seems'' almost ''mechanical'' I don't know if I've just been imagining what a Leica is like for too long, But it sounds a bit like theres film getting scraped against something, Not jumpy like my m10, Just a bit stiff.
The ''frame line preview lever?'' dose not work. Do I need to have a lens attached to test this?.
the self timer needs you to push in the little button under the lever before it will operate.

if any one has experience with these cameras and can give me a heads up that would be great

IloveTLRs · Feb 12, 2016

seanE said:
The ''frame line preview lever?'' dose not work. Do I need to have a lens attached to test this?

Do you mean when you push it back and forth the frame lines don't change? That sounds broken to me.

mnemosyne · Feb 12, 2016

seanE said:
The post man just brought a lovely little Leica m4 all raped in bubble film.
The seller gives a 1 month warranty with his cameras, So I want to test it fully.
Whats concerning me is..
Film advance ''seems'' almost ''mechanical'' I don't know if I've just been imagining what a Leica is like for too long, But it sounds a bit like theres film getting scraped against something, Not jumpy like my m10, Just a bit stiff.
The ''frame line preview lever?'' dose not work. Do I need to have a lens attached to test this?.
the self timer needs you to push in the little button under the lever before it will operate.

if any one has experience with these cameras and can give me a heads up that would be great

Frame line preview should work irrespective of whether a lens is attached or not. With no lens attached, you see the 35/135mm pair. Move it a bit CCW and the 50mm framelines should appear. Next the 90mm framelines. It is spring loaded, so you have to push against the resistance of the spring and when you let the lever go, it should instantly return to the 35mm position by itself.

Self timer operation is correct as described (you have to push the little button).

Describing and judging sounds and mechanical "feels" through written words is a difficult task. If you are worried about the mechanical condition the best idea would be to show the camera to someone who is experienced. However, I will do my best to describe the sound/feel of my serviced M2 here:
Winding/shutter cocking is not smooth in the sense of "sloppy", it does take just a bit of force on the lever and you might be able to feel a slight resistance towards the end of the stroke. There is faint mechanical ball bearing "rrrrr" kind of sound when winding on, and when the lever returns you will hear a more distinct fast ratcheting "rikrikrikrik" sound. Not all Ms feel or sound the same! I have three Ms (all serviced) and they are all feel and sound a bit different. Against all common wisdom the smoothest and (most precise) one by far is the "lowly" Canadian built M4-2. The "roughest" one is the M3 DS and the M2 falls somewhere in between, I guess.

darkosaric · Feb 12, 2016

Test the camera with the film, see if it has light leaks, frames are not overlapping, all shutter speeds are ok...
About "'frame line preview lever?'' dose not work." --> it depends how much you paid for it. If the price is good (and you cannot get another body for this price) - I personally would not mind this malfunction.

seanE · Feb 12, 2016

Thanks, Yes i would not be to bothered by the preview lever, However i would like to have the correct frame lines show when i put a lens on it, Will they work? il be getting a lens next week so i will test the range finder, and frame lines then, Just so you know i payed 640 euros for it, Its very nice looking, a bit of ware from the advance lever rubbing off the top plate, The view finder ''looks to me a newbie'' fairly good, The 1 second speed, seems more like 1.8 sec, I do ned to check this frothier. I'm hoping it will listen up a bit, i get the impression it was lying up a bit.

seanE · Feb 12, 2016

Thanks for the tip on the self timer as well, ''don't you love fully mechanical devices''

darkosaric · Feb 12, 2016

If all works fine - price is ok - not cheap, not expensive. Slow shutter speeds not ok? --> this could be a problem. You can test this easy with some sound recording program on laptop, record shutter speed and then you can see how correct slow shutter speeds are by looking X axis of the sound recording.

seanE · Feb 12, 2016

Thats cool, il download and test it tomorrow. Then il work it a bit more and re test it to see if it makes any difference
.

seanE · Feb 12, 2016

just comparing my m4 to others on the internet, the preview lever is stuck pointing away from the lens mount, i can move it towards the mount and feel a spring resisting.

seanE · Feb 12, 2016

also with further fiddling, it advances smoother with the bass plate off

Xmas · Feb 12, 2016

seanE said:
also with further fiddling, it advances smoother with the bass plate off

When you remove the baseplate the counter (exposure) resets there is a little finger that is held when the base plate is closed.
The wind on should be the same with or without the base plate in place.

Xmas · Feb 12, 2016

seanE said:
just comparing my m4 to others on the internet, the preview lever is stuck pointing away from the lens mount, i can move it towards the mount and feel a spring resisting.

The lever should be about 25 degrees away from vertical without a lens or with a 35mm lens.
It should be vertical with a 5cm lens.
But if you look through the finder you should see frames for 35mm and 135.
If still looking through the finder you move the lever vertical the 5cm frame should appear and the other two dissappear.
At 1/15 of a second the shutter should make a ping pong sound.
The rangefinder images should be distinct and should coincide when you move the follower.
I'd not think of buying an M by post!

seanE · Feb 12, 2016

Thanks, but whats done is done, and yes theres quirky, ''buzz whirl zeeeep'' noise that gets longer from 15th one. that noise continues a little bit after the shutter is closed.

John Koehrer · Feb 12, 2016

seanE said:
Thanks, but whats done is done, and yes theres quirky, ''buzz whirl zeeeep'' noise that gets longer from 15th one. that noise continues a little bit after the shutter is closed.

That's the slow speed escapement re-tensioning. Normal.

seanE · Feb 13, 2016

Thanks again, Theres one more thing, Seeing that the frame line preview is not working, Is there any way I can manually push some lever in the the camera to show the 50-90mm frame lines, Just to see if there working, And if its just he preview lever that's stuck.

Xmas · Feb 13, 2016

Xmas said:
The lever should be about 25 degrees away from vertical without a lens or with a 35mm lens.
It should be vertical with a 5cm lens.
But if you look through the finder you should see frames for 35mm and 135.
If still looking through the finder you move the lever vertical the 5cm frame should appear and the other two dissappear.
At 1/15 of a second the shutter should make a ping pong sound.
The rangefinder images should be distinct and should coincide when you move the follower.
I'd not think of buying an M by post!

You need

seanE said:
Thanks again, Theres one more thing, Seeing that the frame line preview is not working, Is there any way I can manually push some lever in the the camera to show the 50-90mm frame lines, Just to see if there working, And if its just he preview lever that's stuck.

If the preview does not work it is unlikely the lens selection mechanism will work.
I'd send it back.
The lens operates a follower which you can operate by hand to check if a lens might alter the frame selection.
Don't buy a rangefinder by post.

seanE · Feb 13, 2016

Do you know where this ''follower'' is?. Im in Ireland by the way, And there really isn't any where i could get my hands on a Leica, Maybe in the capital, But it would be at least 10 times the price, And not necessarily in any better condition.

John Koehrer · Feb 13, 2016

IF! I remember right, looking at the lens mount, on the side nearest the preview lever, inside the lens mount(whew)
there's a plate inside the bayonet blade. As the lens is mounted, it presses the plate downwards. The lens is milled
so that when it's mounted the plate is at the correct position.
If the shutter works and focus is accurate I'd ignore the preview thingy. If you decide to have the camera serviced
later it would be included in a CLA.

blockend · Feb 14, 2016

If the frame selector isn't working send it back, don't think about hanging on to it, you'll just have a very bad viewfinder camera.

seanE · Feb 14, 2016

Thanks, I messaged the seller yesterday and his reply was send it back if your not happy. But I'm kind of thinking il get a 35mm ltm colour ''skopar'' ''dam predictive text''
and use/test it with that until I can afford to get it serviced, ''I'm I mad?'' should I send it back before I find more things wrong with it, Or is it as good as I'm going to get at the price?.
If some one could give me a rough estimate of what it would cost for a CLA, and to repair the frame lines that would be great, I'm just afraid it might be astronomical just because its a Leica.

blockend · Feb 14, 2016

seanE said:
Thanks, I messaged the seller yesterday and his reply was send it back if your not happy. But I'm kind of thinking il get a 35mm ltm colour ''skopar'' ''dam predictive text''
and use/test it with that until I can afford to get it serviced, ''I'm I mad?'' should I send it back before I find more things wrong with it, Or is it as good as I'm going to get at the price?.
If some one could give me a rough estimate of what it would cost for a CLA, and to repair the frame lines that would be great, I'm just afraid it might be astronomical just because its a Leica.

640 euros (£500) isn't cheap for a fully working M4. For a malfunctioning M4 it's very expensive. Did the vendor tell you the frame line lever wasn't working? It's a pretty obvious flaw and I'd start looking at what else he's missed. At least get a quote for a repair and ask the seller if he's interested in paying for it or making a substantial contribution. If not return it, the world has no shortage of Leicas, even nice Leica M4s.

John Koehrer · Feb 14, 2016

Guessing that a repair would be in the area of $200 by Youxin and more from either Sherry Krauter on Don Goldberg.
Contact them directly & get a quote.
It would also be easier if we knew where you're located, There're decent techs all around the globe.

640 Euros is just over $700, not a great price for a working camera, a bit steep with the fault. There's been a pretty M4 on the Chicago CL for $750 lately and the seller says it's working with clean VF, so they're out there. If it were a dealer with a six month they're more expensive but....supported.

seanE · Feb 15, 2016

Im in Ireland so import tax is a killer ordering from the US, Thanks for your input, I've been watching the prices one the eBay within the EU and japan, There just ant that many, I'm waiting for a quote from a guy near me and I'm going to pass it on, I just don't know how to stop it happening again, and losing more postage, ''fully working and with 1 months warranty'' hard to get much better than that right.

Xmas · Feb 15, 2016

John Koehrer said:
Guessing that a repair would be in the area of $200 by Youxin and more from either Sherry Krauter on Don Goldberg.
Contact them directly & get a quote.
It would also be easier if we knew where you're located, There're decent techs all around the globe.

640 Euros is just over $700, not a great price for a working camera, a bit steep with the fault. There's been a pretty M4 on the Chicago CL for $750 lately and the seller says it's working with clean VF, so they're out there. If it were a dealer with a six month they're more expensive but....supported.

A service in UK is typically 120£.
There are M shops who do postal sales.
Google
RedDotCameras
Or
PeterLoy
Both have good reputations

Xmas · Feb 15, 2016

seanE said:
Im in Ireland so import tax is a killer ordering from the US, Thanks for your input, I've been watching the prices one the eBay within the EU and japan, There just ant that many, I'm waiting for a quote from a guy near me and I'm going to pass it on, I just don't know how to stop it happening again, and losing more postage, ''fully working and with 1 months warranty'' hard to get much better than that right.

The M4 is not necessarily the easiest to use choice, neither are the M4-2 or M4-P or M5.
The M2 or M3 are slower to reload but much less prone to misload.
The optional quick load kit M2 or M3 is easier to use.
If you need a system rangefinder for photos the Canon P was a working pros choice. Eg

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hopkins_(political_activist)

Testing a Leica M4

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