Terrible experience with Retro Photographic. Don't know how to proceed. Help needed.

sandermarijn · Jan 15, 2009

Hi,

End of december I ordered, among some other small things, three 50-packs of Kentmere VC 12x16 glossy with RetroPhotographic in Shropshire. They then sent me an email saying that they have only two of those packs left in stock. So I ordered two instead.
But they shipped only one. It's on the receipt as well, just one pack. Why did they send me one when they have two in stock? I asked them by email. Four times actually. No reply. Then I sent them a letter. No reply.
Well, this morning I called them. The retro man (don't remember his name) said they have no more 50-packs left in stock. Also, they can no longer be ordered from Kentmere. This *may* all be true, but then why not tell me so? I asked them what was up and never got a reply.

The downshot is that I ordered three packs of 12x16 and received only one. When I politely told the man that I am not very happy with that, he simply put down the phone. I called him back but obviously now the line is busy.
I paid considerable shipping cost (GBP 20 ex. VAT) for my order. That was alright considering the amount of paper I ordered. But it is not okay in comparison to what I eventually received.

I wanted to suggest to the Retro man (before he put down the phone) that he send me the same paper in another format or finish, or another brand altogether. Well, that suggestion was not to be.
Am I being scrupulous and small-minded when I say that I am angry and disappointed with Retro? I thought they had a good name. What can I do to get the paper I wanted. I do NOT want a refund, I want my order complete. Is that such an unreasonable thing to expect from a 'professional shop'?

I am sorry if I sound angry, but I really am and do not feel like hiding it. I spent a lot of my money with them, trusting they would stick to their end of the deal. Is there anything more I can do to get my order fulfilled, other than sending four emails, one letter and making three phone-calls?

If anybody knows a solution, please let me know. I really would like to have my missing paper (or similar), not an 'easy' refund.

Comments much appreciated.

Sander, Netherlands.

Matt5791 · Jan 15, 2009

Hi Sander,

There have been a few negative posts about Retro, but also some positive ones.

When I have dealt with them I have found them to be fairly casual set up.

Not really sure what to suggest, other than ask for a second pack to be sent with free delivery, and keep asking until you get a positive response. The paper is readily available so, unless Retro have fallen out with Harman, they should be able to get supplies.

Infact I spoke to Harman customer services a couple of days ago to enquire about an odd size of VC Select and was not informed of any supply problems with regular sizes such as 12x16.

(incidentally I was after 10x10" - but you need to order 100 packs of 100......nevermind!)

Matt

sandermarijn · Jan 15, 2009

Thanks for your insights Matt,

I have just called them again, and still got the answering machine. I left a recording saying that I don't take it personally with them and that I just want to see my order fixed. I suggested they send me 5 packs of 10 instead of the 50-pack I had ordered. If this is also not in stock then well, what is in stock? How professional is Retro?

One of the things I don't understand about their reaction is how they claim that the 50-pack cannot be back-ordered from Kentmere/Harman. This sounds just so unlikely. Is either Retro or Harman about to go out of business? That doesn't sound very probable. So then why hide behind what seems to be not the truth?

Besides, the 50-pack is still listed on their website. What will they do with the poor sods who order the stuff. Give them the other small things they ordered, charge them the shipping and refund the paper's value? Is that the dirty trick going on here? Forgive me for speculating so nastily, but if Retro had provided proper (at least) service, then all these thoughts would not have originated in the first place.

There is little I can do from Holland where I live. I can buy a ticket to Shropshire and get things fixed on the spot, but that doesn't seem very realistic somehow... One thing is for sure anyway: if this does not get a happy ending, I will never ever buy from Retro again. Their service up to now has been simply appalling.

BTW, I also ordered from Silverprint. They have been wonderful. They also did not have everything in stock, but they solved that most graciously. Silverprint will be my new home it seems. I also love PhotoImpex in Berlin. They are fast, cheap and reliable. Oddly enough, Retro and PhotoImpex link to each other's sites. Strange world.

Matt5791 · Jan 15, 2009

Retro is or was the official UK distributior for Fotoimpex, hence the link.

Just for the record, yes silverprint are a very useful company, but they also balls up too - eg. sending out 10 rolls of 24exp HP5 instead of 36exp - which is just somone being totally useless and not concentrating on what they are picking off the shelf - I only realised about a month later when it was basically too late to do anything about it. Duh!

Matt

Ian Grant · Jan 15, 2009

When Silverprint make a mistake they rectify it quickly, that makes a huge difference.

Ian

sandermarijn · Jan 15, 2009

Of course every company and every person make mistakes. The point is how they deal with those mistakes. In this case, Retro's reaction was just plain bad. No apologies, no explanation, not even a willingness to listen to a suggested solution.

I have just called Retro again. Once more the answering machine. Is he a one-man business? In any case, I left him a message to call or mail me back so that we can settle our dispute. My suggestion is that he ships 5x 10-packs or 1x 50-pack finegrain, or something else he does have lying around and that I can make use of. Judging from his putting down the phone on me, I don't expect an answer. (Also, I sent four emails and one letter and never got an answer.)

I have done my best, more I cannot do. (Unless I rent a lawyer- not funny.)

I do have something to say about the paper that I did receive with my order. The pack had been opened. Also it felt a bit empty. I did not count the number of papers (too much hassle), so I am not entirely sure. The pack does weigh less though (about 50 grams) than another full pack I still had. Would Retro be selling out its very last stocks? Too much speculation I admit. I am starting to see a monster behind every tree now.

Enough for now. I'll post any new development. (Don't count on much happening.)

Thanks for all your help.

Sander.

removed account4 · Jan 15, 2009

sanders,

why don't you call and ask to speak with the manager or owner of the store
and tell him politely what happened.

unless, of course, that is who you have been speaking with. if that is the case, just
let your money do the talking, and buy your supplies from another dealer ...

john

Ian Grant · Jan 15, 2009

One & the same person

Ian

BarryWilkinson · Jan 15, 2009

I am sorry to hear of your problems with Retro, but I'm not surprised, I have not had any good experience with them (him), stick with Silverprint. You could remind Retro of the Dead Link Removed to try to get a refund on the items you have not received (inc Postal charges).

Barry

du a gwyn · Jan 15, 2009

retro photographic

i've also had some bad experiance's with this company,he's a strange man to deal with.i've also turned to silverprint who i find them fantastic to deal with.another company i deal with is Nova,who allways have a good stock of everything.

fotoman · Jan 15, 2009

Just after our start up we authorized Retro as a Fotoman dealer, at the urging of our German dealer FotoImpex (who at the time had some business relationship with Retro). Retro is a one man operation.

We cancelled Retro shortly thereafter for many of the reasons mentioned above. Additionally, they never paid us for the last shipment of goods (about US$3K). After sending dozens of (unanswered) emails and leaving dozens of (unanswered) messages... we finally wrote it off as a bad debt, and a bad experience.

More succinctly... I wouldn't piss in their ears, if their brains were on fire.

railwayman3 · Jan 15, 2009

I've no experience with Retro Photographic, and I think I'll avoid.

I've used RK Photographic a few times in the last months, and have been very pleased in all respects. There was one small omission from an order, and this was immediately rectified by First Class Post. Anyone can make a mistake, but you don't mind when things are put right efficiently and politely.

sandermarijn · Jan 15, 2009

Hi guys,

I have called Retro twice more today. The answering machine every time. I left messages similar to the ones I left before, stating that I just want him to apologize for his messy way of doing business. Also, I have told him (the machine that is) that I find it irresponsive of him to list products on his website that are not only out of stock, but can also not be back-ordered from Harman.

Message to everybody who feels tempted by Retro's low pricing on Harman papers (I ordered Kentmere) and possibly other stuff: please do not give in. Retro has almost nothing in stock and they do not seem able to back-order (not in my case at least, reason not stated, because he hang up the phone).

Alternatives? Silverprint is very nice and accurate. Go with them instead, or with PhotoImpex if you live on the continent. PhotoImpex is cheaper on Eastern-European stuff, more expensive on British products, and about the same for Fuji and Kodak. Silverprint is not expensive on British products, especially with the current GBP-Euro exchange rates. (I feel very sorry for you Brits, you don't deserve such a economic setback any more than the rest of the EU.)

I am sorry to be so harsh on Retro, but they (he) have themselves to blame.

Regards, Sander.

Steve Roberts · Jan 15, 2009

I'd contact Ilford/Harman. They have a vested interest in seeing that end users are well served by retailers. If enough people complain I'd have thought that Ilford would have a quiet word in Retro's ear. Otherwise, vote with your feet. Thank you also for taking the trouble to warn everyone on APUG of the potential problems when dealing with this firm.

Steve

BarryWilkinson · Jan 15, 2009

Its interesting Sander that at one time Fotoimpex would not supply UK buyers, we were referred to Retro for their products. Now it seems from their website that Fotoimpex are willing to supply the UK direct. Maybe they have also had a poor experience with Retro?

Barry

Ian Grant · Jan 15, 2009

BarryWilkinson said:
Its interesting Sander that at one time Fotoimpex would not supply UK buyers, we were referred to Retro for their products. Now it seems from their website that Fotoimpex are willing to supply the UK direct. Maybe they have also had a poor experience with Retro?

Barry

I asked Mirko about this a few months ago in (there was a url link here which no longer exists).

Ian

sandermarijn · Jan 15, 2009

I don't think the DSR2000 reminder would ever arrive with somebody who doesn't answer (read) email and ignores the phone, most of the time. A pidgeon carrier maybe? Seriously though, it's more his problem than mine. I missed out on some paper, his business is down the drain. It will sort itself out, I hope.

sandermarijn · Jan 15, 2009

Ian Grant said:
I asked Mirko about this a few months ago in (there was a url link here which no longer exists).

Ian

It's great for the UK that Mirko ships to there as well. Some of his prices (Adox, Foma, Agfa) are much better than in Britain. And then I'm not even talking about service.

Conversely though, I was happy (for a while) to see that Harman FB paper is much much cheaper in the UK than in Germany or elsewhere. Happy until I met Retro that is.

Retro is cheapest for Kentmere FB paper, but Silverprint isn't bad either. In terms of service though, they are worlds apart. (Retro is in the 1985 USSR somewhere.)

sandermarijn · Jan 15, 2009

fotoman said:
More succinctly... I wouldn't piss in their ears, if their brains were on fire.

That's a great one, we don't have it in Dutch. I will memorise it and use for some special occasion. Sorry about your losses though.

sandermarijn · Jan 15, 2009

Remove "Foto Impex England" link from FotoImpex.de?

If Mirko is around, would you want to take the 'Foto Impex England' banner/link off your site? Some of Retro's bad may end up on your plate.

Maybe you can swap for Silverprint?

What brought you to include the Retro-link in the first place? Was Retro a better place in the old days? Just wondering aloud.

removed account4 · Jan 15, 2009

sander -

you might want to send a link to this thread to the fellow who runs retro.
so he knows he will be not only losing you as a customer, apug folks and
perhaps others who may google the name and wonder about the service.

mcgrattan · Jan 15, 2009

I also had a less than perfect ordering experience with them just before Christmas. I ordered film which was listed in stock. After a week of not receiving anything I contacted them and it turned out they hadn't shipped my order because they didn't have enough stock to satisfy it.

Now they did send me out a different film when I complained, and they did that pretty quickly, so they did make an effort to rectify the problem. However, the basic initial service wasn't good. If I hadn't contacted them I would have had no idea if my order was delayed in the pre-Christmas post, or what.

sandermarijn · Jan 15, 2009

jnanian said:
sander -

you might want to send a link to this thread to the fellow who runs retro.
so he knows he will be not only losing you as a customer, apug folks and
perhaps others who may google the name and wonder about the service.

Done!

sandermarijn · Jan 15, 2009

Steve Roberts said:
I'd contact Ilford/Harman. They have a vested interest in seeing that end users are well served by retailers. If enough people complain I'd have thought that Ilford would have a quiet word in Retro's ear. Otherwise, vote with your feet. Thank you also for taking the trouble to warn everyone on APUG of the potential problems when dealing with this firm.

Steve

I hope that my warning is fair. Perhaps many others do have positive experiences with Retro. On the other hand, Retro treated me so poorly that they deserve nothing less. A customer (especially foreign) doesn't have much power against a company once payment has been made. The internet is very useful in this respect.

I could warn Harman/Ilford, but probably they have had enough warning already. Unpaid bills for example.

sandermarijn · Jan 15, 2009

mcgrattan said:
I also had a less than perfect ordering experience with them just before Christmas. I ordered film which was listed in stock. After a week of not receiving anything I contacted them and it turned out they hadn't shipped my order because they didn't have enough stock to satisfy it.

Now they did send me out a different film when I complained, and they did that pretty quickly, so they did make an effort to rectify the problem. However, the basic initial service wasn't good. If I hadn't contacted them I would have had no idea if my order was delayed in the pre-Christmas post, or what.

This is exactly what happened to me. Retro sent me less than my full order and they did not reply at all (email, ordinary mail) to my pointing this out. Only when I called them did the guy tell me he had refunded the value of the missing item. When I politely (!) asked why he had not responded to my emails and my letter, he just hang up. If I had not called him this morning, I would still be in the belief that he was working on it somehow, nor would I have known of the partial refund without calling VISA.
Plain terrible service.

Terrible experience with Retro Photographic. Don't know how to proceed. Help needed.

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency