Temperature independence?

Hello. First off I tend to use three 120 films - well two mostly; Fuji across and Fomapan 100 both about equally and Tmax 400 once in a while. I tend to like the Fomapan 100 best and will probably use it exclusively when my other stock is used up, but I'm not sure of that yet. I've been a very happy camper with Rodinal, (1:75 or 1:100) and I guess I like (gasp!) grain. I find that when I get tight but plentiful grain that I like the appearance of texture, which works very well on the statues that we shoot.
My problem is this. In the summer my tap water is ~78- 80 degrees. I've tried using ice cubes but would really like to avoid that, mostly because I don't want to put aside wash water iced to drop temperature and I tend to do ~20 rolls at a time and using ice, getting it close is a pain. So - no ice.

That led me to diafine. I've run about ten rolls of all three films through the stuff so far and though I like it ok with the Fomapan, it is not what I'm looking for, if there was another developer which like Diafine has no problems with high temperatures affecting development. Is there something else? Especially something which would give high acutance?

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I've searched and so far seem to be unable to find a Diafine substitute. Mind you ... I have not had much experience with Diafine and really appreciate its characteristics ... but would love to find an alternative if there is one.

Thanks!

Those are all films prone to grain clumping/micro reticulation (looks like excessive grain) if the temperature of Developer/Stop bath/fixer & wash aren't kept tight, +/- 1º C. So you need to be careful.

Living in Turkey I have to use temperatures up to 27º C to process films, but luckily the water temperature only varies by +/- 0.2º C.

Ian

Pavel+ said:

In the summer my tap water is ~78- 80 degrees. I've tried using ice cubes...

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Ever tried Rodinal with your 80 degrees (27 C)? It may work fine... I also like Rodinal for its sharpness and by now I haven´t seen any effects due to temperature if you develop for the according time. Downside of the said is that I never used the Rodinal over 20 C. Between 15 C and 20 C I claim it temperature independend with Neopan 400 and ORTHO 25.

Hope this helps a bit.

Andreas

My friend has had grain clumping with Foma 100 and Rodinal. At normal temperatures, too.
Murray

I normally use rodinal and have only given it up until the temperature drops. I have to say that I did not entertain the thought at all of using it at high temperature - perhaps a test is in order?

But if elevated temperatures don't work with traditional time/temp sensitive developers ... it seems like Diafine is the only way to go.

Temperature increase of your developer will, with most developers, speed up your development cycle. Sometimes to very short developing times.

You should expose some film normally and try cutting it in pieces and develop the different pieces at different times at, say 25*C or so, and see what you get. Adjust until you like your results, or determine that it will not work.

Keep in mind that if the developer temperature is elevated to about 25*C, the rest of your chemistry must be at that temperature also. It is very important.

I think you will be able to develop just fine at higher temperatures with enough testing first.

I know of people that have used pyro developers at higher temperatures, and those seem to work very well in those conditions, and you get very high acutance with a developer like Pyrocat, entirely on par with Rodinal. But try Rodinal first. See if it works. Use what you normally use.

I can see why you didn't like Diafine. Regardless of lighting contrast at exposure it treats the film the same way, and is a developer that is excellent for high contrast situations. In flat lighting it has little to offer.

- Thomas

Pavel+ said:

I normally use rodinal and have only given it up until the temperature drops. I have to say that I did not entertain the thought at all of using it at high temperature - perhaps a test is in order?

But if elevated temperatures don't work with traditional time/temp sensitive developers ... it seems like Diafine is the only way to go.

Click to expand...

My tap water during the summer is as high as 77 degrees. Other than diluting the develper for longer times I keep all the solutions at the exact same temperature including the wash water.which incidentally is also the water bath, Variation in temperature of solutions is usually the cause for grain problems

rmolson said:

Variation in temperature of solutions is usually the cause for grain problems

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Indeed it is! And it might also cause micro reticulation, as Ian has pointed out, which looks like grain. Either way - watch the temperatures!

- Thomas

Some years ago, Kodak changed their recommended processing temperature to 24 C. So I wouldn't worry about your stated temperature. What is important is temperature consistency between processing steps. I let the temperatures of each step to drift in the direction of the wash water temperature, either up or down. Sudden changes can cause increased grain/granularity/reticulation. (Pick whatever you like. I'm tired of watching this particular horse being flogged.)

Kodak only changed to 24° C for certain applictaions.

The key is careful temperature control, Ilford might say that +/- 5°C is OK and others might also be as foolish, but that's not good enough for high quality fine grain images.

The tighter the temperature control the finer the grain. Some films may be less sensitive, and can stand big changes, but some big selling films from Fuji & Kodak etc can't, so you need to work with that in mind.

Ian

Here this summer, My tap water is 72f, so I put some ice and water in the sink and set the beaker with the developer in the cold water till the temps comes down to 68f.

Pavel+ said:

I've searched and so far seem to be unable to find a Diafine substitute. Mind you ... I have not had much experience with Diafine and really appreciate its characteristics ... but would love to find an alternative if there is one.

Thanks!

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This formula is from Patrick Dignan's book Classic B&W Formulas.

Solution A
Sodium Sulfite, 35 grams - Hydroquinone, 6 grams
Phenidone, 0.2 grams - Sodium Bisulfite, 6 grams
Water to make, 1 liter

Solution B
Sodium Sulfite, 65 grams - Sodium Metaborate, 20 grams
Or, Borax 20 grams, for results "like that of D76"
Water to make, 1 liter

Mr. R. W. Anderson who wrote the article, claims a true
one stop speed boost plus "the advantages ... of
a two bath".

Be advised that when you use a two bath developer that you sacrifice control of film speed and contrast for ease of use.

Thanks everyone for your replies. I'm going to start experimenting with Rodinal again at the higher temperatures. I really like Rodinal - so far. It is interesting that already I can see certain films looking good in some developers while not in others.
One film I do like it Diafine is Fomapan 100.
Actually for the larger 6x7 negative size, the fomapan which I tried on a lark is turning out to be my favorite film. It has a "tooth" for lack of a better word that really works for me, it gives me what I want. I'm starting to wonder why so many film shooters seem to dislike any traces of grain.

So I'm going to shoot some test rolls back to back (nice thing about interchangeable backs) and see how it goes.

Pyro is one of those developers I've long been curious about. Curious but not yet ready. I may have to give it a whirl sooner than I considered. So many choices! Why does life have to be so short!