Temp Regulator (Need Advice)

jperkinson · Sep 22, 2005

I just recently moved, and I'm in the process of building up my darkroom.

Currently I can print, but I have to walk across the basement to a wash basin for water. I'm planning on installing new sink basins against one wall in the darkroom area over the winter, but for now I'm just winging it...

The water coming into the basement is rarely below 75F, and I'm used to developing most of my films and papers at 68F. Once I reroute the water over to the new sinks, I think it would be a good idea to regulate the water temp.

Does anyone have any advice on water temp regulators? New? Used? Brand? Skip that crap and just use some freakin' ice cubes?

At my last house I was very lucky in that the sink water ran very close to 68F most of the year except in the winter when it ran much cooler.

Donald Miller · Sep 22, 2005

Having worked for a lot of years in mechanical design and support, the only way of which I am aware to mechanically decrease your water temperature is to use a water chiller. Basically this would involve a refrigerated "water over" evaporator. There are several devices that utilize this mechanical principle. The most common is a water cooler. However a water cooler is probably not going to be of sufficient capacity to do what you want. Beyond that if you could come up with a small commercial ice maker, it would probably be adaptable by a knowledgeable technician.

Once that were accomplished, then you would have to deal with a mixing valve to precisely mix the cold water back to the higher temp water of your municipal supply.

Short story is that you are going to spend a lot of money to cool water that could be done much more easily with ice cubes in a water tempering bath.

The alternative would be to come up with new developing times for your higher supply temps. I have heard that typically one can assign 3-5% of time variation per degree of temp variation.

jp80874 · Sep 22, 2005

75 degrees F seems pretty warm for tap water in Wisconsin. What is up stream or pipe from your basement sink? Do the pipes run by a source of heat? Is there a way to tap into the water supply at a cooler point? Ideally you then want to place a mixer that blends a colder source with the 75 degree water to give a blend of 68 degrees.

John Powers warming up 60 degree well water in northern Ohio.

lee · Sep 22, 2005

I use 75F for all my film processing and have no issues with it. The water coming out of the tap this time of year here is in the 85-90F in some cases. if I had water at 75F I would not worry about it at all.

lee\c

Eric Rose · Sep 22, 2005

geez must be nice. my water out of the tap is around 50F. in the summer it might get up to 70F.

jperkinson · Sep 22, 2005

Yes, it really is around 75F. Keep in mind we've had a pretty warm summer here in Wisconsin, and I've only been here since early July. I'm sure once autumn kicks in the temp will go down.

JP - I checked the water supply lines and I don't see anything out of the ordinary that would warm the pipe, but I'm going to check it out again.

I really haven't had many issues with developing film at 75F, in fact I've heard Kodak and some other modern emulsions actually benefit and do better at that temp (designed for warmer water in equatorial countries).

I was a bit more worried about print development, but my prints have been fine so far using 75F water. I'm anxious to see if the water temp will come down a lot during the winter.

Guess I'll concentrate on getting running water over and putting in sinks and simply not worry about temp yet...

jp80874 · Sep 22, 2005

With fuel prices going up 72%, if the water stays at 75 degrees F this winter I would suggest putting in some old style radiators and heating the house. After the water runs through them it should cool down to the 68 degrees you want. Alternatively I agree with the others that 75 has worked in my darkroom, just adjust the time.

JP

jperkinson · Sep 22, 2005

75F out of the ground seemed very high to me..! I was surprised...

I've tested the water with 3 different thermometers, so I've eliminated that. It's just odd for being this far north... A leaky fixture is possible I suppose...

lee · Sep 22, 2005

my thought is how far is the water tower from where the darkroom is? The longer the water is underground the cooler it will be. I am not but about 4 blocks so with the heat that is one the tank the water has less time to cool.

lee\c

Bob F. · Sep 22, 2005

I do all my processing at 24C (just over 75F). It's easier to keep temperatures at a little above ambient and even in London, it's often above 20C on summer evenings... Best go with the flow (pun intended....)...

Cheers, Bob.

joeyk49 · Sep 22, 2005

I consider myself lucky...I have a well. My water comes out of the ground at about 58-62 deg....I have to mix with heated water to get it to 68; summer or winter...I guess that's why geothermal works so well....

Here's something to consider:

I noticed that my newer refrig has a water supply line running to the ice maker and the exterior door for drinking. It runs about 50 (I'm guessing) feet of white plastic tubing in a coil inside the refrigerator to cool it down. Are the ideas starting to infiltrate???

I also read an article somewhere, from Florida, where police needed to do surveillance at a location, but running a/c in a parked blacked out van would draw tooo much attention. They rigged up a water line that ran through a large plastic cooler (like the ones for picnics, etc.) and filled the cooler with ice. They pumped the water (or coolant, I don't remember which) throughout the van and reduced the temp by a dozen degrees or so.

It might be possible to rig up an apparatus to cool the water before it gets to your trays. Regulation is another matter...it may depend on how much you process...

Then again, many can live with 70-72 degrees

Donald Miller · Sep 22, 2005

joeyk49 said:
I consider myself lucky...I have a well. My water comes out of the ground at about 58-62 deg....I have to mix with heated water to get it to 68; summer or winter...I guess that's why geothermal works so well....

Here's something to consider:

I noticed that my newer refrig has a water supply line running to the ice maker and the exterior door for drinking. It runs about 50 (I'm guessing) feet of white plastic tubing in a coil inside the refrigerator to cool it down. Are the ideas starting to infiltrate???

I also read an article somewhere, from Florida, where police needed to do surveillance at a location, but running a/c in a parked blacked out van would draw tooo much attention. They rigged up a water line that ran through a large plastic cooler (like the ones for picnics, etc.) and filled the cooler with ice. They pumped the water (or coolant, I don't remember which) throughout the van and reduced the temp by a dozen degrees or so.

It might be possible to rig up an apparatus to cool the water before it gets to your trays. Regulation is another matter...it may depend on how much you process...

Then again, many can live with 70-72 degrees

Hmmm...this is interesting...If a person would take fifty feet of 1/4 inch type K copper (soft copper) and coiled it to fit inside a Coleman cooler and to a coil inside a water bath in which the developer tray was placed... Then by installed an aquarium pump as a circulating pump, the Coleman cooler could be packed with ice and the effect would be that a heat transfer would take place within the Coleman cooler.

I may look into this for the times when the water temps here in Phoenix run about 95 degrees.

jperkinson · Sep 22, 2005

I do a lot of processing, so I don't want something to really complicate that process...but these ideas are intriquing.

Just something anecdotal here... Tonight I processed 2 rolls of film, and the temp came out at 73F..! It has cooled off here somewhat, so maybe it had something to do with the summer temps around here. I can always use ice cubes if I feel like getting closer to 68F, until fall/winter when the temp should be much lower...

I had a bigger concern with prints, because I like to keep my development times closer to 2 minutes.

sunnyroller · Sep 22, 2005

Cooling methods

I think that I read somewhere here on one of the forums about running the copper coil through a dorm refrigerator and then back out. You don't have to mess with buying ice and draining off the water, etc. Haven't tried it though, but it sounded like a neat idea.

I just keep a pitcher of water in my refrigerator strictly for when I develop film and mix it with tap water until I get the temp I want. I print at school so temps for paper are not an issue.

At my house here in Arkansas, when it is over 100 degrees outside the "cold" water comes in at about 80 degrees. This isn't a problem during the winter so I don't think it is a problem involving the water heater.

Sunny

Rick Jones · Sep 23, 2005

At this time of year my tap temp is also +/- 75 degrees. In the Winter it can be as low as 55. I choose to develop (negatives and prints) at 68 degrees and in Summer use the "freakin' ice cube" method for the consistency afforded by sticking to one temperature and the fact that my Zone VI CDT is programmed at that temperature. I stop, fix and wash at tap temperatures and have not experienced any of the quality problems implied by those suggesting tighter control of ALL processing temperatures. Exception: in Winter I mix cold tap with hot water to bring temp closer to 68 for post dev processing. Truth be told I would love to install a Hass temp control unit to use in the Winter when I have to control the mix of hot water with the cold tap but so far haven't been able to justify the expense.

Early Riser · Sep 23, 2005

The water in my darkroom has been running about 75 this summer, I would prefer to work my film at 68 and my prints at 70 so I guess next year I install a water chiller. The tough part is where to put it, I already have so much plumbing around here and a water chiller needs access for it's controls.

Anyone having humidity problems in the dark room? In the summer I run a dehumidifer in the DR but it makes it 80 degrees in there so I have to crank the AC but the DR is not a separate zone. So next year it gets it's own AC system. In the winter it gets so dry that I have to run multiple humdifiers. It never ends..... digital is looking better sometimes.

Curt · Sep 27, 2005

jperkinson said:
I just recently moved, and I'm in the process of building up my darkroom.

Currently I can print, but I have to walk across the basement to a wash basin for water. I'm planning on installing new sink basins against one wall in the darkroom area over the winter, but for now I'm just winging it...

The water coming into the basement is rarely below 75F, and I'm used to developing most of my films and papers at 68F. Once I reroute the water over to the new sinks, I think it would be a good idea to regulate the water temp.

Does anyone have any advice on water temp regulators? New? Used? Brand? Skip that crap and just use some freakin' ice cubes?

At my last house I was very lucky in that the sink water ran very close to 68F most of the year except in the winter when it ran much cooler.

Have you considered moving to a more temperate zone. The people who live in LA, TX, MISS have a lot of cold water in their basements.

Temp Regulator (Need Advice)

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