Tell me I don't need this... 205TCC + 110mm f/2

[etn]

Gang,

Munich has the particularity that a large photo store is conveniently located next to the post office. So after shipping out my Photrio Blind Print Exchange assignment yesterday, I obviously had to stop at the photo store. Coming to the point, their 2nd hand department currently has a Hasselblad 205TCC in very good condition, sold together with the legendary 110mm f/2 lens. Everything works well and it looks like it has hardly been used. Price is about average for this I would say, no bargain but not unreasonably high either. Manufacturing year 1992.

I am a happy owner of a Hasselblad 500 kit with more or less every lens in the "sensible" range (i.e. no 500mm or 30mm fisheye, which I would hardly use.) I use the 120mm a lot, for macro as well as for portraits. So far I stayed away from 200 series Hassys for a reason - they are said to be unreliable and unrepairable, and your $3k camera can suddenly be turned into an expensive paperweight. Or so they say.

I could unload some other stuff I own and get this. But the real question is, would it really bring me anything compared to what I already have? Or in other words, is that 110mm lens so extraordinary different that it justifies getting a 200-series body, with the inherent risk, to use it? Is the risk of getting an expensive paperweight really that high? Are other (later?) models preferable to the 205TCC? In your eyes, are those 2 stops difference (compared to the 100mm f/3.5 or 120 f/4) really worth that much money? etc. etc.

Please shoot me your opinions, thanks!

 

[Slixtiesix]

Sorry to tell you this but you really need this lens! It is really outstanding within the Hasselblad-lineup, no comparison to the usual 500-series lenses. For portraiture, this lens is simply amazing. A friend of mine has it (he has a complete 200 series kit) and he allowed me to use it several times. However, I do not think you may need the 205 TCC. The 203FE or 202FA are much cheaper and fully sufficient for most cases. Especially the 202FA is really underrated I think. If you do not need a meter, get a 201F which may cost even less.

 

[antmar]

OK, you don't need this...

 

[neilt3]

What's need got to do with anything ?!
You've clearly got lens lust and G.A.S in general .
You know there's only one outcome that will make you happy .

I think your just looking for someone to blame when you get home and get asked "why do you need another camera ?"

Go on then , enjoy your new camera .

 

[Chris Livsey]

You may find this of interest:
https://digitaltransitions.com/fast-portrait-lens-phase-one/

Big Buttery Bokeh; Ultra Fast Portrait Lenses for Phase One Bodies
It's not about digital or the camera just the MF lenses and some unusual ones:

Hasselblad 110mm f/2
Mamiya 80mm f/1.9
Schneider 130mm f/2.1
Contax 80mm f/2.0
Schneider 110LS f/2.8
Schneider 80mm f/2.8

The 205TCC is probably over complex just to use the lens, far more to go wrong and far less likely to be fixable, the "trendy" film wedding set use the 80mm f2 on the Contax 645, again no support left but seem to be more about and autofocus which may or may not be of interest. The frames I have seen from the lens are compelling, but the usually in the hands of a photographer who could make any lens compelling, I too have been tempted but tales of woe on the bodies abound. You can pick up a Hasselblad H1 body and the HC 100mm f2.2 probably for the same outlay and have full service available. That HC lens is well favoured if you read around.

HC 100mm f2.2

 

[etn]

What's need got to do with anything ?!
You've clearly got lens lust and G.A.S in general .
You know there's only one outcome that will make you happy .

I think your just looking for someone to blame when you get home and get asked "why do you need another camera ?"

Go on then , enjoy your new camera .

No, to be honest, I don't even feel much GAS here. I have enough cameras to be happy, and am happy enough with the cameras I have. My girlfriend doesn't care how many I have. Besides, it's my money, not hers. And I am grown up enough to take my own responsibilities, so I will not blame anyone here.

I'm just at the 50-50% (undecided) point of buying it or not (perhaps more on the side of NOT buying it!) and looking for educated, informative, sensible opinions about going one way or the other.

So now the consensus seems, the lens is a killer, but there are better choices in terms of body. Let's wait a little while, other opinions might pop up.

Thanks!

 

[paul ron]

Gang,

Munich has the particularity that a large photo store is conveniently located next to the post office. So after shipping out my Photrio Blind Print Exchange assignment yesterday, I obviously had to stop at the photo store. Coming to the point, their 2nd hand department currently has a Hasselblad 205TCC in very good condition, sold together with the legendary 110mm f/2 lens. Everything works well and it looks like it has hardly been used. Price is about average for this I would say, no bargain but not unreasonably high either. Manufacturing year 1992.

I am a happy owner of a Hasselblad 500 kit with more or less every lens in the "sensible" range (i.e. no 500mm or 30mm fisheye, which I would hardly use.) I use the 120mm a lot, for macro as well as for portraits. So far I stayed away from 200 series Hassys for a reason - they are said to be unreliable and unrepairable, and your $3k camera can suddenly be turned into an expensive paperweight. Or so they say.

I could unload some other stuff I own and get this. But the real question is, would it really bring me anything compared to what I already have? Or in other words, is that 110mm lens so extraordinary different that it justifies getting a 200-series body, with the inherent risk, to use it? Is the risk of getting an expensive paperweight really that high? Are other (later?) models preferable to the 205TCC? In your eyes, are those 2 stops difference (compared to the 100mm f/3.5 or 120 f/4) really worth that much money? etc. etc.

Please shoot me your opinions, thanks!

i hate those situations. your brain just floods with great expectations of what you will do with it but somewhere in there you know the reality. its not the money. but you will try n justify it regardless.

you dont need it!

how about asking the camera shop to rent it to you for a couple days?

.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

You NEED food, water, and shelter.
Everything else is optional.

 

[spijker]

You may want to read up here on the 200 series. The author switched from a 500CM body to a 203FE body and writes why. Whether this applies to you and is worth the money is something that only you can decide. Of course a new camera is always exiting. It won't make you a better photographer but it can motivate you to shoot more and that could make you a better photographer. I have a brochure PDF of the 205TCC but it's 21 MB. Let me know if you're interested and I'll send it to you.

Menno

 

[etn]

Hi Menno,
thank you! I am very familiar with that website indeed. Yes the PDF would be interesting (I already read the user's manual... wow, so many functions compared to a purely mechanical 500 series!) Let's discuss in pm how to pass it over to me.
Etienne

 

[wiltw]

You may WANT this, while you do not NEED this. That is called a 'whim' and sometimes whims have to be followed, and othertimes (after a bit of time) it becomes a passing whim.

I have made some whimsical purchases to add to systems that have not had active use in some time, so you can make similar questionable decisions, too. It helps the economy, and help prevents loss of of limited supply photographic pieces to history...one day someone will marvel at your complete Hasselblad system, after your passing. Better in your collection than being tossed into a trash bin because they do not find a buyer.

 

[etn]

Guys
so let me precise you my position a bit more. The title is indeed misleading!

I definitely do not NEED it. Especially as I already have a fine 500 series. I am not even sure that I WANT it. As stated above, I do not even feel I have GAS. I see it the following way: tools open doors. For instance, I only owned and used a Rolleiflex for over 10 years. Adding a Hassy opened many doors (photographically speaking): more lenses than just 80mm, possibility to do macro, etc. Another example could be: a small 35mm camera (such as Leica M or Olympus OM) may enable having a camera when you don't want to lug your Hasselblad around, at the expense of neg size/picture quality. Yet another example would be an underwater camera: you can do things with it not possible with regular ones.

The questions are,
1) which door does a 205 + 110mm lens open to me, compared to the gear I already have; (I fear not that many)
2) what is the expense, apart from the money aspect (this one is easy, I just need to look at the price tag)

 

[MattKing]

How are you going to feel if you really like using the lens, but you have reliability problems with the body?

 

[wiltw]

Guys
so let me precise you my position a bit more. The title is indeed misleading!

I definitely do not NEED it. Especially as I already have a fine 500 series. I am not even sure that I WANT it. As stated above, I do not even feel I have GAS. I see it the following way: tools open doors. For instance, I only owned and used a Rolleiflex for over 10 years. Adding a Hassy opened many doors (photographically speaking): more lenses than just 80mm, possibility to do macro, etc. Another example could be: a small 35mm camera (such as Leica M or Olympus OM) may enable having a camera when you don't want to lug your Hasselblad around, at the expense of neg size/picture quality. Yet another example would be an underwater camera: you can do things with it not possible with regular ones.

The questions are,
1) which door does a 205 + 110mm lens open to me, compared to the gear I already have; (I fear not that many)
2) what is the expense, apart from the money aspect (this one is easy, I just need to look at the price tag)

1. The 500 series do not have a focal-plane shutter nor do they have in-camera metering. So think of how having either feature would add to your photographic situations that might be photographed, which are not possible with your 500 series!

2. The 205TCC supports

+new series of F/TCC lenses and ECC filmbacks with electronic databus communciations
+ coupled open-aperture metering (spot)
+ aperture priority automatic exposure
+ zone-metering
+ differential metering​

3. The focal plane shutter of the 205TCC goes up to 1/2000
4. The 110mm is f/2...think of low light or shallow DOF capability

How could any of these be of benefit in broadening the photographic situations that you handle (or handle with increased rapidity)?

 

[mshchem]

BUY IT. Between the US Federal Reserve, the US National Debt, the IMF and the ECB. The US dollar and the Euro will eventually go to zero. You will have a nice lens to barter for food

Seriously, if you think you can get something that you can't with your current outfit get it. Very cool setup, but not for me.

Buy in Haste, Repent in Leisure.

Best Mike

 

[mshchem]

You may find this of interest:
https://digitaltransitions.com/fast-portrait-lens-phase-one/

Big Buttery Bokeh; Ultra Fast Portrait Lenses for Phase One Bodies
It's not about digital or the camera just the MF lenses and some unusual ones:

Hasselblad 110mm f/2
Mamiya 80mm f/1.9
Schneider 130mm f/2.1
Contax 80mm f/2.0
Schneider 110LS f/2.8
Schneider 80mm f/2.8

The 205TCC is probably over complex just to use the lens, far more to go wrong and far less likely to be fixable, the "trendy" film wedding set use the 80mm f2 on the Contax 645, again no support left but seem to be more about and autofocus which may or may not be of interest. The frames I have seen from the lens are compelling, but the usually in the hands of a photographer who could make any lens compelling, I too have been tempted but tales of woe on the bodies abound. You can pick up a Hasselblad H1 body and the HC 100mm f2.2 probably for the same outlay and have full service available. That HC lens is well favoured if you read around.

HC 100mm f2.2

Great Cat!

 

[Sim2]

TTL auto flash facility -
Auto exposure bracketing, needs the winder I think -
On-going expense of a battery to work meter etc -
110mm can always be sold if the camera dies.
The 110mm is like the m/f equivalent of a noctilux; if you don't like wafer-thin depth of field with a tad of distortion – save your money!

 

[Ai Print]

Well, with a 500 ELX, five 501CM’s, 9 CF, CFi and CFe lenses and 14 backs including a CFV50c to earn a living with, I have zero desire for a 200 or 2000 series camera or lens.

What I do need is lots of reliability and backup and the 500 series does that for me better than any system.

But that’s just me.

 

[itsdoable]

I do not have the 110mm (had the opportunity for a reasonable $, but unfortunately passed on it), but I have owned a 500c and c/m, 2000fc and fc/m, and currently own and use a 500cx, 2000fcw and a 203fe. I find that I use the 203fe most of the time. My 500cx has been relegated to the backup bag, and has not really come out (except when I need to hold and hear it again) as I've been fortunate not to have a serious failure in my 200 series bodies so far.

The 203/205 does everything the 500 will do, plus it has a nice accurate meter. Auto exposure if that is important.

The down side is the battery consumption (high) and what I would call a less pleasant mechanical sound.

If the battery dies, the 203/205 will still function mechanically in C mode and B.

The main non-repairable failure is the shutter curtain release electromagnets, replacement are not available.

I've also had the mirror baffle detach (which happens on all GMS bodies) and a failure with the lens data bus.

I have used a number of lenses on my 200 series bodies, 120mm Imagon, 400mm Ennalyt, 30mm fisheye Arsat, 50mm Mamiya Sekor Shift, etc... along with the C and F lenses from Hasselblad.

Not sure how the above will help with your decision.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

.


BUY IT!!!!!

... looking for educated, informative, sensible opinions about going one way or the other.
...

Clearly, you've come to the wrong place.

Ok, seriously, the 205TCC and the 205FCC which followed intrigued me with the Zone and differential metering. I really wanted one. Yet, to use it properly, you have to have the corresponding lenses and backs which complement those modes.

Knowing that Hasselblad won't support them any more (is that true?), kills the deal because it's a very expensive brick.

 

[Sirius Glass]

OK, you don't need this...

You do not need it. The 500 series will do everything you want and more. I skipped the 30mm but I got the 500mm because the price was so good, although I rarely use it.

 

[bdial]

If you buy it, your 500 will get very jealous, and probably get into arguments with the 205. The 205 will be very resentful at getting brought into a hostile environment, and none of them will make good pictures for you again.

 

[film_man]

My approach to these things is that

1 if the price is a bargain I buy it, try it, if I don't like it I sell and make a profit
2 if the price is average I buy it, try it, if I don't like it I sell for maybe a small loss which I consider "rent" for the duration I had it and the price of acquiring first hand knowledge about things we couldn't even dream of owning a few years back
3 if the price is too high I generally pass unless I'm fairly confident I will keep it and then it depends on condition and things like warranty (ie if the price is high it is always from a shop, never ebay)

To me it sounds like you want to try it, since the price is ok-ish think how much you may loose if you sell it later on. Can you afford that, if yes then that's the price for first hand knowledge and getting it out of your system.

 

[film_man]

PS...if the concern is the body then get it, dump the body and wait for a 203FE or something. The rare thing is the 110 here. I wish I could find a 110/2 for my Rollei for a reasonable price...they go for even more stupid money than the Hasselblad ones.

 

[skysh4rk]

Or in other words, is that 110mm lens so extraordinary different that it justifies getting a 200-series body, with the inherent risk, to use it?

Well, my opinion is that the 110mm lens is amazing. It's probably my favourite lens out of anything that I've ever owned.

That said, I'm not that big on Hasselblads, especially the 2000- and 200-series models. The cameras themselves are risky investments with a lot of electronics (relatively speaking) and I prefer the ergonomics of some of their competitors (e.g., Bronica, Rolleiflex, etc.).

Ultimately, I decided to sell the 110mm with the rest of my Hasselblad kit, get a Rollei SL66E, and then adapt a Leitz Hektor 125mm f/2.5 for use with it. It's not quite the same look as the Zeiss 110mm, but it's a much cheaper combination for comparable results and I also now get 13 shots per roll with tilt capability.