Telerium toner

Claire Senft · Apr 6, 2005

In Phototechniques magazine some time back Dr. Robert Chapman was discussing the metal toners. He mentioned telerium toner which during toning forms silver teleride..hope I did not misspell that too badly. At that time I had never heard of telerium being used as a toner.

Does anyone here tone in telerium? What kind of print color do you get?

Want to share a formula? how expensive is it? Toxicity?

L Gebhardt · Apr 6, 2005

Claire Senft said:
In Phototechniques magazine some time back Dr. Robert Chapman was discussing the metal toners. He mentioned telerium toner which during toning forms silver teleride..hope I did not misspell that too badly. At that time I had never heard of telerium being used as a toner.

Does anyone here tone in telerium? What kind of print color do you get?

Want to share a formula? how expensive is it? Toxicity?

I don't have the magazine, but it sounds as if you are refering to selenium toner which forms silver-selenide. If so there are a ton of threads on selenium. If not, I am also in the dark on Telerium toner.

The other option is tellurium, but I hadn't heard of that until I did a google search.

Claire Senft · Apr 6, 2005

sorry.

I have committed another unauthorized creative spelling usage. Tellerium is what I am after.

fparnold · Apr 6, 2005

In principle, the chemistry should be the same, though being heavier than selenium, the color will be somewhat different. In practice, Tellurium does what it wants, and often makes structures that Se/S won't.

Beyond the usual "be careful out there" warnings, do be aware that like most chalcogens, there is a smell associated with organotelluride compounds, so if you ingest any, you'll have a particularly bad case of garlic breath.

If you try some, post a picture so that we can compare the color with selenium.

George Papantoniou · Apr 7, 2005

You could try asking Wolfgang Moersch, who will surely know everything about the Tellurium toner. He actually knows everything about photographic chemistry there is to know (I think). And he's a really nice, helping guy. Deutsch is the preffered language to write, but I think he'll manage English too.

wolfgang@moersch-photochemie.com

titrisol · Apr 7, 2005

Tellerium? never heard of that element... maybe it is Tellurium?
Not very friendly, but it may work, since it belongs to the same family as Selenium
Silver Telluride is known as Hessite, gray to silver gray mineral, so I dunno what color it'll give to the images..

I think buying it would be even moe expensive than selenium and safety wise is a bit less dangrous.
Technical data pdf here

MSDS said:
Effects of Exposure:

Elemental tellurium has relatively low toxicity. It is converted in the body to dimethyl telluride which imparts a garlic-like odor to the breath and sweat. Heavy exposures may, in addition, result in headache, drowsiness, metallic taste, loss of appetite, nausea, tremors, convulsions, and respiratory arrest. (Sax, Dangerous Properties of Industrial Materials, eighth edition)

Acute Effects:

Inhalation: Toxic by inhalation. Dust may cause irritation to the respiratory system, dry mouth, garlic odor to breath, sweat and urine, nausea and vomiting.

Ingestion: Poison by ingestion. May cause dry mouth, suppression of sweat, garlic odor to breath and urine.

Skin: May cause irritation and itching.

Eye: May cause irritation.

Chronic Effects:

Inhalation: May cause anorexia, nausea, depression to the central nervous system and somnolence.

Ingestion: May cause anorexia, nausea, depression to the central nervous system and somnolence.

Skin: May cause dermatitis.

Eye: No chronic health effects recorded.

It is insoluble in water but soluble in alkali solutions, so is alkalinity iis a problem an oxide or some sort of salt should be used to make a toner.

It is used in toners for photocopiers/laser printers... which sound similar but it's not the same

Claire Senft · Apr 7, 2005

thank you all

I have sent an email to Herr Moersch. Thank you all for the help and interest. Depending onwhat he has to tell me, I may make some toner. Should that happen I will post some information here.

rbarker · Apr 7, 2005

Silver Telleride? Isn't that the "low-rent" district of that Colorado ski resort?

Seriously, Claire, I'd never heard of the toner either, so any additional information you come up with will be interesting.

arigram · Apr 7, 2005

Damn and I read "Dellirium toner"...
That would have been quite interesting!

titrisol · Apr 7, 2005

Claire Senft said:
I have sent an email to Herr Moersch. Thank you all for the help and interest. Depending onwhat he has to tell me, I may make some toner. Should that happen I will post some information here.

Sources for Tellurium:

Sigma-Aldrich part #226418 about $70 for 100g
ESPI metals

George Papantoniou · Apr 8, 2005

Aristoteles, I think you've got some kind of "Delirium toner" in Creta, it's used a bit differently than the other toners (you actually have to drink it) but the effect is really interesting. It's called Raki, or Tsikoudia. I don't know whether there is a recipe in the Darkroom Cookbook, though.

Claire Senft · Apr 10, 2005

I have heard from Herr Moersch. George you are correct. He is a very nice man. He informed me that his past efforts to tone in tellerium with silver/gelatin fiber based paper have been unsucessful. He believes in might work...he not tried it..with some of the alternate processes.

Sino · Apr 10, 2005

Way off topic, George and Aristo, but i'm interested in "delerium toner" too. I've had some combinations before, too. Raki doesn't mix well with other "psychic toners", that's for sure... Care must be taken! =)

Claire, this "tellerium toner" sounds interesting. Hope you'll make it and i'll be waiting on my screen.

-Sino.

George Papantoniou · Apr 11, 2005

Claire, if Wolfgang Moersch hasn't succeeded to tone in Tellerium, I'm pretty sure noone will (unless he hasn't really tried, which I doubt). The guy is just a genius, in my humble opinion. I've been at his lab outside Koeln, seen lots of his work and trust me, I know what I'm talking about... As for his brews (print developers, mostly), they are brilliant (I'm not trying to advertise his products, I have no reason to do that...). All the lith printing I have been doing is with his Lith developer and you can't imagine how easy it goes...

titrisol · Apr 11, 2005

Tellurium toner souldn't give much of a change in color.
Silver telluride is gray

George Papantoniou said:
Claire, if Wolfgang Moersch hasn't succeeded to tone in Tellerium, I'm pretty sure noone will (unless he hasn't really tried, which I doubt). The guy is just a genius, in my humble opinion. I've been at his lab outside Koeln, seen lots of his work and trust me, I know what I'm talking about... As for his brews (print developers, mostly), they are brilliant (I'm not trying to advertise his products, I have no reason to do that...). All the lith printing I have been doing is with his Lith developer and you can't imagine how easy it goes...

Claire Senft · Apr 11, 2005

George, I am trusting your word. No reason to doubt it have I. I did send to Photo techniques, attention Dr. Robert Chanpman, a question regarding a recipe for making a tellerium toner and the process for its use. My reason for doing so was not to doubt Herr Moersch. Rather, my reson was that he was the one that had issued such an opinion in the first place.

I do not know, of course, if Dr. Chapman, will choose to answer the question. However, I do look forward to either getting an "I was wrong.", "Here is how it is done". or "This is what you might try in compounding a toner based on tellerium".

My guess would be for third option: "This is what you might try in compounding a tellerium toner".

We shall see.

Thankful am I to those of you that offered help. I do not need a delerium toner as I have sufficients fights of fancy that are already dashed upon the cruel rocks of reality. Such a toner would only compound my confusion and be of unnecssary expense.

Telerium toner

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