Techniques for Salvaging Slightly-Fogged Paper?

waffles · May 27, 2022

I inherited a 30" roll of Ilford MGIV RC paper. It is a massive amount of paper! And I would like to cut it into 12x12's, 20x24's, 24x24's, and 24x36's. The problem is, the paper has a little bit of fog. To be clear, it isn't *that* bad. If I develop an unexposed strip of paper normally then I would say the result is approximately Zone IX instead of paper-white.

So, obviously I can't use this paper for any high-key prints or anything where I want the highlights to be pure white. But most of my photography is low-key and the most important parts are the skin tones. Usually, the only highlights are catchlights in the eyes (which will pose a problem.) I was wondering how I would go about getting the best possible results from imperfect paper?

Don_ih · May 27, 2022

Two options:
(1) develop normally and give a quick reducing bleach/fix.
(2) develop with benzotriazole or potassium bromide in the developer. I'd choose benzo.

Worth considering is that the paper may be less fogged as you unroll it. I find that to be the case with age-fogged bulk film fairly often. It might be the same with paper.

pentaxuser · May 27, 2022

Benzo is pretty good if the paper has only the slightest of age fog. You may find that it can be restored to "as good as new" state

pentaxuser

faberryman · May 27, 2022

How about throwing out the fogged paper and instead using fresh paper so you don't waste a lot of time and effort in the darkroom making substandard prints?

Down Under · May 27, 2022

Don Heisz said:
Two options:
(1) develop normally and give a quick reducing bleach/fix.
(2) develop with benzotriazole or potassium bromide in the developer. I'd choose benzo.

Worth considering is that the paper may be less fogged as you unroll it. I find that to be the case with age-fogged bulk film fairly often. It might be the same with paper.

Benzotriazole is best. If you use it, remember that it tends to slow down the paper's speed a bit, which means more development, which also means you may well undo the effect of the "benzo" in cleaning up small amounts of fog. (The principle here is the longer you develop old paper, the more the fog may show.)

Potassium bromide ("potbrom" as it's known in our photo club) can produce color changes in some papers. Test and see.

With both chemicals, err on the side of too little at any given time, rather than too much.

Also agree that as you unroll, the paper may be less fogged.

I am currently trying to use up a big stock of FB paper, boxed and unopened, some of it dating back to the 1980s. With "mixed" results (I'm tempted to say "mixed" in my case means "good and rotten", but the situation isn't quite that bad, so I'll stay positive on this).

the biggest frustration I'm finding is no two prints made from paper taken out of the box in sequence come up the same - so it's very much a case of just keep printing until you get the result you want, but don't expect the next print to be consistently as good.

Still, you got the paper for free, so it's not a total loss on your part.

Happy printing. Be sure to get a BIG waste paper basket...

ic-racer · May 28, 2022

i'd see how it works with lith printing. In that case, of course, the paper is snatched from the developer before there is any development of the un exposed portions.

Bill Burk · May 28, 2022

faberryman said:
How about throwing out the fogged paper and instead using fresh paper so you don't waste a lot of time and effort in the darkroom making substandard prints?

True that trying to using age fogged paper can damage your ego. You will do the best you can and feel unsettled about the print. Then you will question whether all your experience in the darkroom hasn’t taught you anything and you’re a fraud.

But if you can clearly label the container with a note to your future self. “Slight age fog”, then try some of these rescue treatments.

But get fresh paper too, and use fresh most of the time

gone · May 28, 2022

I once had some Foma papers that got a little fogged because my regular safe light was too bright for them. They still made very nice prints. As you said, unless you have a lot of white highlights in the shot it may not be a big deal.

Don_ih · May 28, 2022

I think I'd rather burn the roll than try to print it via lith printing. That would take an eon. As for throwing it out and buying fresh - that's fine if you're out of your mind or rich or both.
Anti-fog is a normal practice.

faberryman · May 28, 2022

Don Heisz said:
As for throwing it out and buying fresh - that's fine if you're out of your mind or rich or both. Anti-fog is a normal practice.

I guess for some people it is. Others not so much. I think you gave better advice a few months ago:

Don Heisz said:
You can waste such an incredible amount of time in the darkroom dealing with even slightly fogged rc paper. For example, you make a test strip on it, then expose a sheet and it doesn't look anything like any part of the test strip. The contrast doesn't respond to filters properly anymore. Fogged rc paper seems to vary sheet to sheet. It can have odd random spots on it that develop lighter or darker.
Fogged fb papers are the only ones worth trying to deal with. They are more consistent sheet to sheet and respond well to benzo. Even then, it's still wasting a massive amount of time compared to using fresh paper.

MattKing · May 28, 2022

You have a fogged roll.
Potentially perfect for in camera large format paper negatives.
Or for those big prints in odd sizes you would never otherwise try.
And it may very well be much better a couple of layers in from the edge.
Try it - you may very well find that you are struggling more with paper curl than fog.
With respect to the small print labelling on the outside, does it indicate Harman Technology or does it indicate Ilford Imaging? The answer will help you determine the age.
A private Conversation message to @Harman Tech Service with the lot number and a request that it be dated may yield even more information.

NB23 · May 28, 2022

Fresh paper is sooooo nice.

Okay, what I do with SLIGHTLY fogged paper is toning it in Brown toner. This gives it an edge and a taste.

faberryman · May 28, 2022

Even when I lith print and tone in polysulfide toner I want white highlights.

Don_ih · May 28, 2022

faberryman said:
I think you gave better advice a few months ago

First of all, this is a roll of paper which he says is slightly fogged. And it's MGIV - which will respond to benzo well. Older rc papers with incorporated developers fog in a mottled way and can't be fixed with benzo. Not every situation is the same. If it was a roll of Kodak Polycontrast, I'd say burn it - it wouldn't even be good for paper negatives or contact sheets.

waffles · May 30, 2022

pentaxuser said:
Benzo is pretty good if the paper has only the slightest of age fog. You may find that it can be restored to "as good as new" state

pentaxuser

I’ve never even heard of benzo before. I’m using Ilford Multigrade developer. Do I just add it to the developer? How much?

waffles · May 30, 2022

MattKing said:
You have a fogged roll.
Potentially perfect for in camera large format paper negatives.
Or for those big prints in odd sizes you would never otherwise try.
And it may very well be much better a couple of layers in from the edge.
Try it - you may very well find that you are struggling more with paper curl than fog.
With respect to the small print labelling on the outside, does it indicate Harman Technology or does it indicate Ilford Imaging? The answer will help you determine the age.
A private Conversation message to @Harman Tech Service with the lot number and a request that it be dated may yield even more information.

Oh, the paper is *super* curly too -_-

Don_ih · May 30, 2022

waffles said:
I’ve never even heard of benzo before. I’m using Ilford Multigrade developer. Do I just add it to the developer? How much?

You make a 1% solution of it (1 g of benzotriazole in 100ml water) and add it to developer 2 ml at a time and see the results.

pentaxuser · May 31, 2022

What Don said, waffles.

pentaxuser

mcfitz · Aug 31, 2022

Don Heisz said:
You make a 1% solution of it (1 g of benzotriazole in 100ml water) and add it to developer 2 ml at a time and see the results.

What would be the stability of a stock solution of benzotriazole, if say, a litre was prepared and not all used during a printing session?
Or does it make more sense to make a solution for each time - rather than a litre, 100ml, for example.
Thanks for any help and advice.

Don_ih · Aug 31, 2022

mcfitz said:
What would be the stability of a stock solution of benzotriazole, if say, a litre was prepared and not all used during a printing session?
Or does it make more sense to make a solution for each time - rather than a litre, 100ml, for example.
Thanks for any help and advice.

I bought benzo as a powder about 5 years ago. I have had a bottle with a solution of it at .1% for a couple of years. It shows no sign of change (it's clear). Benzo doesn't dissolve in water easily - or very much. You can't make a concentrated solution of it, for instance. A litre of water won't hold much more than 5 grams of it. But a low concentration of that stuff is useful. A little does a lot.

mcfitz · Aug 31, 2022

Thank you very much, Don, that is good to know.

koraks · Aug 31, 2022

Don Heisz said:
A litre of water won't hold much more than 5 grams of it.

I found a 1% solution of benzotriazole juuuust makes it if you're patient. Takes a couple of days to clear. And yes, AFAIK it keeps forever.

Hilo · Sep 14, 2022

Get the Benzo stuff, but also get fresh paper in the size you would like to do tests. Then do the same print on both papers. Only when you can compare, you'll know!

jnk · Sep 14, 2022

use it to make prints that no one else can make like tim mcgraw
it could be your secret syrup, waffles

Tel · Sep 14, 2022

jnk said:
use it to make prints that no one else can make like tim mcgraw
it could be your secret syrup, waffles

You could try lumen printing.

Techniques for Salvaging Slightly-Fogged Paper?

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