Tapered tap for cable release socket

Deleted member 88956 · Mar 29, 2019

So far I've hit no suitable places that have the info or can supply what I am after. Official standard for the thread is available, and I am told taps were made for proper threading of cable release socket (same one as found on any camera/lens that accept mechanical cable release).

Does anyone know of a source for this tap? Please note I am asking for proper way of making the sockets not workarounds with tools not built for it, as I can do that and cable will stay in, but this is not the way. I was hoping Ali Express of similar Chinese sources would have sockets, which I'd be OK with at least for now, but still knowing how it is to be made is the key for me.

grahamp · Mar 29, 2019

Would https://www.shapeways.com/product/979GZ374G/shutter-cable-release-adapters-tapered-threads work? See also https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:186443.

The conical thread makes sense from a user point of view - easy to screw in, does not need precise alignment, and locks well. Not trivial from the manufacturing side.

Deleted member 88956 · Mar 29, 2019

grahamp said:
Would https://www.shapeways.com/product/979GZ374G/shutter-cable-release-adapters-tapered-threads work? See also https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:186443.

The conical thread makes sense from a user point of view - easy to screw in, does not need precise alignment, and locks well. Not trivial from the manufacturing side.

Thanks for the link, but that is not it. I know the thread is standardized with published specifications and there was a special set of drill bit/tap made to make them. I've not been able to locate the source (once I appeared to get close to a special tool supplier in Germany, but my attempts to contact them fell on deaf ears). Making the male counterpart is simple, it is the female end that is giving me headache (fitting I guess).

jim10219 · Mar 29, 2019

M3x0.5 is going to be your closest, easily found, tap size. It's not perfect, but I don't think the cable release tap is the kind of thing that you can actually buy. I think the demand for these is so small, that you'd probably have to machine your own (or find some else who can) if you needed it exact. I've used the M3x0.5 before on a LF shutter and it worked okay. The metal for the housing is really thin so I didn't get much metal to grip the cable release with, so the cable can go in at several different angles, only one of which will trigger the shutter (straight in).

Deleted member 88956 · Mar 29, 2019

jim10219 said:
M3x0.5 is going to be your closest, easily found, tap size. It's not perfect, but I don't think the cable release tap is the kind of thing that you can actually buy. I think the demand for these is so small, that you'd probably have to machine your own (or find some else who can) if you needed it exact. I've used the M3x0.5 before on a LF shutter and it worked okay. The metal for the housing is really thin so I didn't get much metal to grip the cable release with, so the cable can go in at several different angles, only one to which will trigger the shutter (straight in).

Thanks, but again, the thread is specified and am looking to get the tools to make it right as from factory. I am not looking to do something that will sorta work, I can do that now without any extra tools. I know these are not times when demand for such things is high enough for even a Chinese outfit ot make them on larger scale (and they make a lot of odd things to fit old cameras)

Jim Jones · Mar 29, 2019

jim10219 said:
M3x0.5 is going to be your closest, easily found, tap size. . . . )

Close enough to work. The old ASA specification is 50 tpi and 14 degree 20 minute taper for any of us willing and able to do it right.

jim10219 · Mar 29, 2019

Witold said:
Thanks, but again, the thread is specified and am looking to get the tools to make it right as from factory. I am not looking to do something that will sorta work, I can do that now without any extra tools. I know these are not times when demand for such things is high enough for even a Chinese outfit ot make them on larger scale (and they make a lot of odd things to fit old cameras)

Then you'll probably need to find someone with a CNC lathe and build your own series of taps. Expect to pay handsomely for it, cause working on metal that hard won't be cheap or easy.

wombat2go · Mar 30, 2019

For small quantity, it might be possible to cut with a single point.
using cnc lathe or a manual lathe with a taper attachment mounted on rear of bed.
Note that the thread profile is perpendicular to the axis, not the taper.

I use these tools for camera threads 55 and 60 degree.
It might be possible to grind the 60 degree end of the internal tool down to do the job.
https://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/2pc-8MM-Square-HSS-Lathe-Threading-Tools-55---60-634259.html

choiliefan · Mar 30, 2019

Ideally you would use the lathe to machine the tap.
Mill or grind in the flutes.
If your aim is to cut soft metal it probably wouldn't need to be hardened unless this is a big production run.
As per Wombat2go, a lathe with taper attachment could do this easily, provided a competent machinist is behind the controls.
Fargo/Micro Tools doesn't show any taps for this purpose.

Deleted member 88956 · Mar 30, 2019

choiliefan said:
Ideally you would use the lathe to machine the tap.
Mill or grind in the flutes.
If your aim is to cut soft metal it probably wouldn't need to be hardened unless this is a big production run.
As per Wombat2go, a lathe with taper attachment could do this easily, provided a competent machinist is behind the controls.
Fargo/Micro Tools doesn't show any taps for this purpose.

Thanks, this is a solution once I find out original manufactured tap is not available.

John51 · Mar 30, 2019

Cut the thread of a cable release into 3 flutes and you have a tap ready to be hardened. I doubt one will be enough though. Could try one as is and then you can guess how many you'll need and if hardening is worth the effort.

Mr Bill · Mar 30, 2019

choiliefan said:
As per Wombat2go, a lathe with taper attachment could do this easily, provided a competent machinist is behind the controls.

Yes, Wombat2go knows what he's talking about. As a note, the lathe also has to be capable of thread-cutting, and needs to have the appropriate gear set for the necessary thread pitch.

Regarding heat treatment, etc., the general rule is that you don't want to do your machine work on hardened materials. You would prefer to use a specific material that IS hardenable, but delivered to you in a reasonably "soft" condition. Then after machining is done, then you have it heat treated according to some specification according to the specific alloy and your specific requirements.

For small scale or hobbyist type work, depending... you would probably be well served to get a piece of something known as "oil-hardening drill rod." After your machine work, you could heat it with a propane torch to a certain glowing color, then plunge into an oil bath (read the instructions). You'll get a hard, but brittle (as are most taps, anyway) tap that should have a useful lifespan used on standard materials.

There is more to the tap than this - cutting flutes, etc.; these are just some things that are not so obvious.

Arklatexian · Mar 31, 2019

grahamp said:
Would https://www.shapeways.com/product/979GZ374G/shutter-cable-release-adapters-tapered-threads work? See also https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:186443.

The conical thread makes sense from a user point of view - easy to screw in, does not need precise alignment, and locks well. Not trivial from the manufacturing side.

Don't know if you have ever had opportunity to notice that oil-field drill pipe also use conical threads. This was invented by Howard Hughes" father and is what started their company. That joint works because it is self-straightening as does the cable release connection. This is no help with your problem but I think it is interesting...........Regards!

John51 · Mar 31, 2019

If the project is a one off, another possibility is to use a Kodak non tapered cable release. I've just tried mine on my Super Fujica 6 and it fits so I assume that the pitch is identical or as close as makes no difference. Much easier to cut a straight thread than a tapered thread.

Ian Grant · Mar 31, 2019

If you check a few cameras/shutters you'll find that the socket thread is rarely tapered, so a straight tap is all you need.

Ian

choiliefan · Mar 31, 2019

My oldest Zeiss-Ikon cameras use a straight threaded cable release.

Jim Jones · Mar 31, 2019

Ian Grant said:
If you check a few cameras/shutters you'll find that the socket thread is rarely tapered, so a straight tap is all you need.

Ian

I checked 8 brands of mostly high quality cameras, and found only the Argus C3 and Mercury II to have straight threads. This was necessary in the Mercury, which used the stronger straight threads to attach a rapid winder.

lensman_nh · Mar 31, 2019

I just checked my Mamyia 645 and my 150mm Rodenstock Large Format and they both have straight threads.

Huh - I never noticed that before this thread.

Ian Grant · Mar 31, 2019

Jim Jones said:
I checked 8 brands of mostly high quality cameras, and found only the Argus C3 and Mercury II to have straight threads. This was necessary in the Mercury, which used the stronger straight threads to attach a rapid winder.

All my Copal/Compur/Compund (except 1)/Protor/Ibsor/Epsilon/AGI etc shutters have straight threads as do my Pentax cameras. The one 1912 small Compound takes a pneumatic air release. I'm not sure I have a single tapered thread socket, I do have two straight threaded cable releases.

Ian

AgX · Apr 1, 2019

Three approaches:

-) buy the male/female taps off the shelf (not cheap)
-) modify a part with a male/female thread into a tap
-) turn a male thread and make it into a tap

Ian Grant · Apr 1, 2019

AgX said:
Three approaches:

-) buy the male/female taps off the shelf (not cheap)
-) modify a part with a male/female thread into a tap
-) turn a male thread and make it into a tap

I bought a few small taps and dies maybe 10 years ago, they weren't very expensive, cheaper still os buy a small set - I've done that as well. They are still relatively inexpensive as I looked at the same set about a month ago.

Jim Jones said:
I checked 8 brands of mostly high quality cameras, and found only the Argus C3 and Mercury II to have straight threads. This was necessary in the Mercury, which used the stronger straight threads to attach a rapid winder.

Some sockets may appear wider at the top/entrance because a small taper is used before the straight thread is cut.

Ian

AgX · Apr 1, 2019

Ian Grant said:
I bought a few small taps and dies maybe 10 years ago, they weren't very expensive, cheaper still os buy a small set - I've done that as well.

This applies to standard threads taps, for anything special you have to pay premium prices. Even a single, special 6mm tap may cost 70€. I know of a tap for a thread used in all our households that is 450€.

Deleted member 88956 · Apr 1, 2019

Ian Grant said:
If you check a few cameras/shutters you'll find that the socket thread is rarely tapered, so a straight tap is all you need.

Ian

majority of sockets are indeed tapered as they were meant to be, which is unrelated to any historical attempts to make straight threads with corresponding cable release to match

Deleted member 88956 · Apr 1, 2019

Cable release thread specs

That's for those arguing there is no such thing as a tapered socket.

Deleted member 88956 · Apr 1, 2019

For fairness, ISO standard for cable release ALLOWS for parallel threaded socket while stipulating that tapered socket is preferable. It also clearly implies that if socket is straight, then cable tip must so be designed as to ensure proper plunging direction of the cable. The latter essentially means that in order to be in ISO spec, the cable release also ought to be designed to cope with this "mismatch". Allowance is also only for specific release forces under 10N to be compliant with the standard, which is perhaps not the distance I am trying to take this. Come to think of it, I remember seeing a cable release with tapered thread on tip, but with short cylindrical front, which was possibly to center the tip in parallel-threaded socket correctly.

Still, tapered is most certainly the way to go and that is what I am trying to figure out.

Tapered tap for cable release socket

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