Tank always leaks after Developer

Jimi and Jim and Janis · Nov 1, 2009

I really dont understand this at all. During developer, my tank is completely water tight and doesnt leak at all with the most rigorous agitation. What I dont get is why afterwords in the stop bath and fixer that it leaks like crazy! I use a small manual tank, Omega is the brand I think. When I pour out the developer though I do unscrew the top a bit or else not all of the developer (or any liquid inside for that matter) will pour out. Of course right after i pour it out I screw it completely again but then thats where the leaks starts.
Does anyone have the same problem? Any solutions? Thanks for reading

ozphoto · Nov 1, 2009

Hi JJJ,

I have a Paterson 4 tank that leaks regardless when I pour out the developer, and it constantly bugs me too.
How much developer is left in the tank after you pour out when you *don't* unscrew the lid? If it's only a few ml I wouldn't be too concerned as the stop bath will neutralise it fairly quickly. If it's a great deal then unscrewing the lid a touch to empty is a good idea as it will take longer for the stop bath to do its bit.

I have tried everything I can think of with my tank - and have come to the conclusion I just have to live with it (messy yes, but manageable); however if somebody can come up with a solution for you, that will work for me too - I'll be happy.

Rick A · Nov 1, 2009

It's possible that the seal is not reseating, or maybe just residual fluid working its way out. I have a similar tank and tried to duplicate your problem, mine didn't so much as leak, as drip a bit of left-overs. Are you using yours as an inversion tank, or do you use the "swizzle stick" to agitate?

Rick

Jimi and Jim and Janis · Nov 1, 2009

If I dont unscrew the top then little developer comes out. If I shake its vigorously then after a while I will get most of the developer out but thats already an extra minute to dev. time. I do what Kodak recommends by sliding the tank back and forth over a 10 in. arch, although still I get leaks. At least it doesnt leak during the most important step I guess, thats good

Q.G. · Nov 1, 2009

My solution to leaking tanks (i use Paterson, and therefore take it as a given that developing film is a messy business. The System 4 tanks are as bad as the older ones.) is to just put up with it.

I never needed to unscrew the top to let all the fluid out, though obviously the tank isn't dry inside after it is emptied. There's no way that it could be.
Which is why pouring out a tank is quickly followed by a fill with fresh water (or stop).

It sounds like your tanks do not let air in when you pour the liquid out. So perhaps you should either pour at a lesser angle (allowing air in above while the fluid runs out below, or get another tank with a bigger opening.

DannL · Nov 1, 2009

The chemicals in question outgas during processing, creating a pressure in the tank which causes the the fluid and gases to be pushed through the seal. Developers like D-76 don't create enough pressure to be significant. Fixer is the worst for causing tanks to leak. For all my hand processing drums (JOBO and others) I have drilled a very small hole (~1mm) in the center of the lids. When I invert during hand processing I place my index finger over the hole. When I turn the tank upright I remove my figner to allow the pressure to escape. This solved about 90% of my leaks.

Jimi and Jim and Janis · Nov 1, 2009

Thanks for the solutions guys. I knew that the problem had to do with air when pouring the dev out but I never figured out how to remedy this. Thanks again.

Do you think that would solve my problems with the leaks during the stop bath and fixer though?

thebdt · Nov 1, 2009

I had this same problem too, at one point. I found that if I throughly dried (i.e. with a paper towel) the areas around the lid and top of the tank, where the tank and lid seal together, the leaking stopped. I assume that the residual liquid from pouring out the developer caused a fault in the seal. At any rate, now that I throughly dry the sealing areas in between each evacuation of the tank, I no longer have leakage problems.

Nicholas Lindan · Nov 1, 2009

Actually, developer creates a slight vacuum - developers are reducing agents and will remove the oxygen from the air in the tank. As pointed out the stop and fix will outgass as they work. The sealing caps on Jobo drums/tanks have an expansion plug to relieve the pressure in the stop and fix steps.

I keep SS tanks in a plastic bag (the cheap old style w/o the zipper) for agitation, keeps the hand dry, and just peel the bag back for changing fluids. Keep the whole in a small print tray to pick up any drips.

RH Designs · Nov 2, 2009

I've found the trick with Paterson tanks is to lift the edge of the lid briefly after the first couple of agitations to break the seal and release the pressure. No problem with leaks since I discovered that.

marco.taje · Nov 2, 2009

I confirm that, no more leakage in Paterson tanks after applying the "burping" technique. I believe a sticky summary about that would be useful

MartinP · Nov 2, 2009

Possibly the OP's tank is some sort of rigid plastic one, without a flexible lid, as he mentions unscrewing it. The totally rigid tanks I have seen have all been very slow to fill or empty, compared to more modern designs with larger funnel/spouts on top. It is also possible that the tank is missing a seal between the lid and the body - I don't recall seeing a rigid tank without a seal of some sort.

With Paterson I have found that closing them with the sandwich-box technique (press down the middle and lift the side to make the pressure lower in the tank when sealed) means they don't leak during inversion, although I only have a two reel tank which might be small enough to avoid the reported Paterson leak problem.

Anscojohn · Nov 2, 2009

Go to stainless tanks. Then you can brag. Leaking ss tanks are part of the cachet of using them, dontcha know@@

PeteZ8 · Nov 2, 2009

RH Designs said:
I've found the trick with Paterson tanks is to lift the edge of the lid briefly after the first couple of agitations to break the seal and release the pressure. No problem with leaks since I discovered that.

Ditto. I don't even put on the lid for stop. I just give it a few light twirls with the stick. Stop works pretty much on contact so I see putting the lid on and the associated mess to be worthless.

Burp during fix, especially after the first agitation session (30 seconds) then another quick burp right before doing my regular inversions.

pentaxuser · Nov 3, 2009

If you can find any, the Durst tanks are the best I have ever used. Mine seem to be completely leak-proof no matter how I agitate and no matter what liquid is in the tank. The tops simply are tight fits and you'd expect these to be the least leak-proof design but not so. Another unusual feature is that the reels are plastic but the film goes into the centre and is held by a central spring. The loading is made simple by an attachment which holds the film while you wind it on. Once the film is under the central spring then loading is virtually fool-proof.

pentaxuser

Thomas Bertilsson · Nov 3, 2009

Q.G. said:
My solution to leaking tanks (i use Paterson, and therefore take it as a given that developing film is a messy business. The System 4 tanks are as bad as the older ones.) is to just put up with it.

Exactly. There is a wonderful invention called nitrile gloves. This insures that you don't get the chemistry all over your hands.
When I process film I keep a tub (that's large enough to fit my entire tank) full of tempered water so I can rinse off the outside of it at the end of each agitation cycle. It's a quick one second thing. And, I wear nitrile gloves.

If it isn't a flood of chemistry leaking out of your tank, meaning that the chemistry level doesn't go below the level of the top film reel, then no harm is done to the film, which is what's really important here. Most tanks leak a little. Some leak more than others. It's just how it is, unfortunately.

craigclu · Nov 3, 2009

A practice that I picked up in the labs (non-photo) at work is to simply run a strip of 3M 33+ tape around the seam. It's a very soft, moldable version of black electrical tape and easily seals everything up and leaves no residue when you remove it at the end of your process. I never need to deal with any leakage this way and my hands never get contaminated with any chemistry for subsequent film handling.

Thomas Bertilsson · Nov 3, 2009

Craig, that's a really very good idea!

HowardDvorin · Nov 3, 2009

Hello all,

My solution is to simply keep a small rag availavble and dry the tank when it gets wet. I have used paterson tanks for years.

Tank always leaks after Developer

Jimi and Jim and Janis

ozphoto

Rick A

Jimi and Jim and Janis

Q.G.

DannL

Jimi and Jim and Janis

thebdt

Nicholas Lindan

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RH Designs

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marco.taje

MartinP

Anscojohn

PeteZ8

pentaxuser

Thomas Bertilsson

craigclu

Thomas Bertilsson

HowardDvorin

Tank always leaks after Developer

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