Taming Fomapan 120's crazy curling

albireo said:

How long had your roll of Foma been expired for, and how was it stored?

You mention 'other film'. Do you have reason to believe that another roll of different film, expired for a similar length of time, perhaps stored in similar conditions to your expired Foma roll, would have curled less/more/the same? Have you tested this?

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Hi

The Foma expired in 2006, it had been stored in a cool chilli bin (not refrigerated or frozen). I shot a roll of Neopan 400 with a 2009 expiry date, and a roll of Ilford Delta 100 that expired in 2002, both similarly stored, processed and dried. They dried flat.

P C Headland said:

Hi

The Foma expired in 2006, it had been stored in a cool chilli bin (not refrigerated or frozen). I shot a roll of Neopan 400 with a 2009 expiry date, and a roll of Ilford Delta 100 that expired in 2002, both similarly stored, processed and dried. They dried flat.

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Thanks.

I shoot fresh Foma 200, 100, 400, Delta 100, Delta 400, Rollei RPX 100, 400, Rollei Retro 400S.

All of them well within due date, all of them processed using the same workflow, same chemistry, same relative humidity conditions, and I hang them to dry using the same method: two AP hooks like this


None of these film stocks presents any outstanding difference in how they dry, in my setup.

Well my test did not prove promising. I loaded the Fomapan 400 on the developing reel backwards to reverse the curl, processed as normal, left it on the reel to do a final wash with photoflo and dried it for about 18 hours on the reel in a cool cabinet with open trays of water under the film. It did not dry fully in that time so I hung it with two clips weighting the bottom and let it slowly dry overnight. Today I went to sleeve the film and it was almost as curly as usual - a little better, but not enough to offset the effort.

I have seen this problem to a lesser degree with Rollei 120 films and I have to conclude, as has been argued on the internet, it is likely a result of the polyester base used. I get no problem with Tri-x or HP5 120 in much less favorable conditions (quick drying with heat or in a forced heat cabinet.

I did leave a couple of print file sheets of Foma rolled against the curl fairly tightly and inserted inside a paper towel tube for a few days and they are now flat - hopefully they will stay that way. I like the look of the film, but I’ll likely use it much less due to the curly PITA factor, and the fact that I can’t justify relocating to Fomapan Shangri la for the ideal drying conditions.

I just received some 120 Kentmere so I’ll try to test that out when I can.

@GDI Thank you for sharing your experience with Fomapan 120 films. I also tried to deal with the curling, but found no way to solve the problem, so I just gave up. Fortunately, the film curls lengthwise, which doesn't really bother me. I can get it very flat in my enlarger film carrier. It is a bigger problem, in my opinion, when a film curls across its width. Then, I need to use a glass carrier to get it straight. Otherwise, it buckles easily.

May I ask why it bothers you that the films curl this way? Does it have to do with scanning or printing?

aparat said:

@GDI Thank you for sharing your experience with Fomapan 120 films. I also tried to deal with the curling, but found no way to solve the problem, so I just gave up. Fortunately, the film curls lengthwise, which doesn't really bother me. I can get it very flat in my enlarger film carrier. It is a bigger problem, in my opinion, when a film curls across its width. Then, I need to use a glass carrier to get it straight. Otherwise, it buckles easily.

May I ask why it bothers you that the films curl this way? Does it have to do with scanning or printing?

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Thx - it is troublesome for both scanning and printing. I can deal with it by using glass holders with masks, but it is a bigger problem when scanning on my Coolscan 9000. It is very hard to close the glass holder door when the film immediately curls up as you try to close it. I get around it by using a thin piece of plastic card to press down the rebate/edge of the negative as I lower the door. This is easier with the Bessler 45 enlarger when I use a glass holder with appropriate mask, since I can usually adjust the negative after the carrier is closed. Since I have not enlarged Fomapan negatives seriously yet, I’m not sure if I’ll experience newton rings down the road.

And I know the pain of "cupping" (as opposed to curling), but I usually only see this occasionally in 35mm film.

GDI said:

Thx - it is troublesome for both scanning and printing. I can deal with it by using glass holders with masks, but it is a bigger problem when scanning on my Coolscan 9000. It is very hard to close the glass holder door when the film immediately curls up as you try to close it. I get around it by using a thin piece of plastic card to press down the rebate/edge of the negative as I lower the door. This is easier with the Bessler 45 enlarger when I use a glass holder with appropriate mask, since I can usually adjust the negative after the carrier is closed. Since I have not enlarged Fomapan negatives seriously yet, I’m not sure if I’ll experience newton rings down the road.

And I know the pain of "cupping" (as opposed to curling), but I usually only see this occasionally in 35mm film.

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Thank you for the explanation. I guess I didn't think about those Nikon negative carriers. I used to own one, and you just reminded me of that pain .

Also, thanks for teaching me the right words, i.e., "curling" vs "cupping" - that's the beauty of Photrio, an endless opportunity to learn something new.

GDI said:

Thx - it is troublesome for both scanning and printing. I can deal with it by using glass holders with masks, but it is a bigger problem when scanning on my Coolscan 9000. It is very hard to close the glass holder door when the film immediately curls up as you try to close it. I get around it by using a thin piece of plastic card to press down the rebate/edge of the negative as I lower the door. This is easier with the Bessler 45 enlarger when I use a glass holder with appropriate mask, since I can usually adjust the negative after the carrier is closed. Since I have not enlarged Fomapan negatives seriously yet, I’m not sure if I’ll experience newton rings down the road.

And I know the pain of "cupping" (as opposed to curling), but I usually only see this occasionally in 35mm film.

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That is my problem also, since I use the Nikon 8000 scanner. I just processed two rolls of Foma 100 120 film in Pyrocat-HDC and had a small amount of curl, but a good amount of cupping. I use a glass carrier in my Nikon 8000. The more you have to play with getting the negatives to lineup and fit in the carrier, the more chance you have of a getting a smudge or dust on the glass or the negative. I hate using glass carriers because of dust and smudges, but it's the only way other than wet scanning to keep the negative even close to being flat.

I have a Senrac Rapid Roll Film Dryer. A somewhat extreme idea just occurred to me. Next time I shoot Fomapan, I will load it onto a reel in the "wrong" direction and then dry it in the dryer. I doubt it will reduce the curl, but now I'm curious enough to actually try it. Has anyone tried something like that?

aparat said:

I have a Senrac Rapid Roll Film Dryer. A somewhat extreme idea just occurred to me. Next time I shoot Fomapan, I will load it onto a reel in the "wrong" direction and then dry it in the dryer. I doubt it will reduce the curl, but now I'm curious enough to actually try it. Has anyone tried something like that?

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No, I haven't, but I haven't used much Foma film until now. It's certainly worth a try, that's for sure. Oh, and I did like the way the 120 Foma 100 came out developed in Pyrocat-HDC and just ordered five more rolls. Can't beat the price!

I did a simple experiment, trying to see if I could reduce the amount of curling present with the Fomapan 100 in 120 format.

I started by winding the film onto a stainless steel reel "backwards," with the emulsion side facing out, against the natural curl. I processed in Pyrocat HD 1+1+200 for 40 minutes (semi-stand), fixed, washed, and dried with my Senrac Rapid roll film dryer. It's a tube with an attached heated fan and filter. It is infamous for causing excessive curling, so I thought that maybe it would reverse some of the natural curling of the Fomapan 100. The experiment failed. The curling persists, regardless of the extra effort. Since I am not scanning my film, it doesn't bother me. My glass negative carrier keeps the film flat.

So, if you are thinking of rushing out to buy the Senrac film dryer, don't, at least not as a cure for Fomapan curling. Otherwise, it's a great film dryer. It's perfect for people who process their film in stainless steel tanks. Plastic reels don't fit.

aparat said:

I did a simple experiment, trying to see if I could reduce the amount of curling present with the Fomapan 100 in 120 format.

I started by winding the film onto a stainless steel reel "backwards," with the emulsion side facing out, against the natural curl. I processed in Pyrocat HD 1+1+200 for 40 minutes (semi-stand), fixed, washed, and dried with my Senrac Rapid roll film dryer. It's a tube with an attached heated fan and filter. It is infamous for causing excessive curling, so I thought that maybe it would reverse some of the natural curling of the Fomapan 100. The experiment failed. The curling persists, regardless of the extra effort. Since I am not scanning my film, it doesn't bother me. My glass negative carrier keeps the film flat.

So, if you are thinking of rushing out to buy the Senrac film dryer, don't, at least not as a cure for Fomapan curling. Otherwise, it's a great film dryer. It's perfect for people who process their film in stainless steel tanks. Plastic reels don't fit.

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I have read that the curling is a result of the emulsion shrinking and thus it will curl that way. This consistent with your tests and mine.

I just shot my first roll of 120 Kentmere today snd I’ll develop it in the next couple of days - maybe it will be my new “discount” film, but I doubt it will give the Foma look…