Taking Candids of Random People

htmlguru4242 · Nov 14, 2005

Something that's always bothered me:

I'll be walking around or driving with my camera, and I'll see people that are arranged perfectly for a picture, and I'll really want to take one, but they don't know I am. Like the other day, there was an old man smoking a pipe, with his dog, standing at a rest stop along the highway, against a background of trees; it would have been a perfect picture, just the way everything was set up; though I'm always wary of taking pictures of random people whom I do not know.

What do y'all think? What to do...

eric · Nov 14, 2005

htmlguru4242 said:
What do y'all think? What to do...

Ask?
That's why I like portraits with shorter lenses. It seems more like the photographer actually had a rapport with that person.

htmlguru4242 · Nov 14, 2005

Well, that would have been the obvious solution; sometimes I don't think. At times, though, asking people will make them adjust from their natural position, thereby ruining some of the effect...

PhotoPete · Nov 14, 2005

Shoot first, ask permission later...
Just take a look at Bruce Davidson's MO. Up close and in your face with a 28 mm...

Wayne · Nov 14, 2005

PhotoPete said:
Shoot first, ask permission later...
Just take a look at Bruce Davidson's MO. Up close and in your face with a 28 mm...

Always ask, othewise you may end up with something in your face that you didnt ask for. And its simply polite.

PhotoPete · Nov 14, 2005

Wayne said:
Always ask, othewise you may end up with something in your face that you didnt ask for.

Agreed, this is a somewhat confrontational approach, and you have to be prepared for what can happen.

Wayne said:
And its simply polite.

I again agree, but I am glad that HCB and others who have followed in his footsteps choose to ignore that social convention. We are collectively better off for it, IMHO.

Lee L · Nov 14, 2005

Wayne said:
Always ask, othewise you may end up with something in your face that you didnt ask for. And its simply polite.

One good way to avoid this is to prefocus, pre-set exposure, and only bring the camera up for the shot. A rangefinder is great for this. And follow the advice of TR, "walk softly and carry a quiet click". The carney in this photo never heard the shutter and backed down when I lowered the camera.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

It's a calculated risk. I could tell from the way he was holding the softball that he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn... at least not very hard.

Lee

argus · Nov 15, 2005

I do street candids occasionally, using a 100-300mm lens.
You take the picture before people notice.

G

rduraoc · Nov 15, 2005

I do a lot of street shooting, looking for candids, and I always shoot and never ask. If you ask, as someone said, the candid is lost. I used to use a 70-300, but now I only use a 135 f/2.8 with a noisy AF SLR and it gives me what I want. The worst I got was a bad face, while I was walking away. Always be discrete, prepare the picture, shoot and walk, like if it had never happened. But it may be a cultural thing. Maybe in your country people will come after you...

markbb · Nov 15, 2005

Regardless of the ethics, you should also be aware of the legal position in the location. This will depend on where you are (on the street, in a private shopping Mall etc), and what you intend to do with the image.

Here in the UK there is an on-going discussion on the letters pages of Amateur Photographer about the dangers of taking candid shots, especially of children. People have been attacked and beaten up/robbed and accused of being paedophiles in some situations.

Struan Gray · Nov 15, 2005

Bruce Davidson. I'll take the East 100th Street photos over the in-yer-face ones any day.

Les McLean · Nov 15, 2005

I've taught a street photography workshop in Brighton, England for the past 8 years and have noticed some changes in how people respond. I sometimes ask permission but most of the time I make the exposure without speaking at all to the subject. If I think there is more photography to be done by engaging the subject in conversation I will. I mostly use a 20mm lens and sometimes an 80 to 210mm zoom mainly at the short end.

Children are wonderful subjects but after I had a situation where a parent thought that one of the workshop participants' was photographing her child, accused us of being peadophiles and called the police I no longer point my camera in that direction. Clearly, as responsible people we must first think of the concerns of parents for sadly it's a strange world we now live in.

My advice would be to make your photographs in whatever way you feel comfortable and don't be afraid to talk to people. Once you have plucked up the courage to do it are unlikely to have further inhibitions. My experience has shown that most people are happy to be photographed and even if they are not they are unlikely to attack you. Those who have refused me simply said no, or sometimes NO but never have I been physically threatened. A relaxed body language and pleasant manner will take you a long way toward achieving success. You should also make quick decisions and make the exposure immediately you see the shot you want for if you tend to hang around and be hesitant you will look uneasy and perhaps suspicious.

ChuckP · Nov 15, 2005

Maybe you should use one of those 90 deg lens attachments.

laz · Nov 15, 2005

I take the shot then approach the person and tell them. I ask them to sign a release and promise not to use the shot in any way if they don't want me to. Either way I give them a personal calling card (I'm not a professional) and tell them to contact me for a copy if they want. (this takes them off the spot they would be in if I asked them to give me their address)

I absolutely never take a picture of any child whose parent I don't know. As a parent I would have been made very uncomfortable if a stranger took a picture of my child, even if they came up and asked. Sad maybe, but the way of the world.

-Bob

firecracker · Nov 15, 2005

Les McLean said:
Children are wonderful subjects but after I had a situation where a parent thought that one of the workshop participants' was photographing her child, accused us of being peadophiles and called the police I no longer point my camera in that direction. Clearly, as responsible people we must first think of the concerns of parents for sadly it's a strange world we now live in.

One of the things I want to try is to take pictures in a real crowded train in Japan. I don't know if I have to ask everyone in the train car first, which is almost like making a real announcement. I don't know it's all that necessary, and If I did that, I might miss the kind of atmosphere that I want to take pictures of. I know I'll need my SLR with a real wide-angle lens, so either way I'll be very noticeable to the crowd. The people in the crowd could probably tell this is not going to be a commercial photo shoot anyway (if so, you need a release form sign by everyone in the finished pictures, etc).

So, do I still have to ask the entire crowd first? Has anyone done this sort of thing?

Wayne · Nov 15, 2005

Whats important here is that you get the picture, your right to exercise your artistic vision should not be compromised in any way by the unknown wishes of your subjects.

Les McLean · Nov 15, 2005

firecracker said:
One of the things I want to try is to take pictures in a real crowded train in Japan. I don't know if I have to ask everyone in the train car first, which is almost like making a real announcement. I don't know it's all that necessary, and If I did that, I might miss the kind of atmosphere that I want to take pictures of. I know I'll need my SLR with a real wide-angle lens, so either way I'll be very noticeable to the crowd. The people in the crowd could probably tell this is not going to be a commercial photo shoot anyway (if so, you need a release form sign by everyone in the finished pictures, etc).

So, do I still have to ask the entire crowd first? Has anyone done this sort of thing?

I've done this in both the London Underground and the New York Subway using fast film, 3200 ISO, and my trusty 20mm Nikor lens. A useful dodge is to shoot blind, by that I mean don't put the camera to your eye and either pre focus or use auto focus. Clearly there is no way that you can sk everyone in the carriage. Another tip that I have found to be useful is if someone spots you and looks hard at you, I meet and hold their look but not in an aggressive way. I can't stress enough the need to be seen as not threatening.

Whiteymorange · Nov 15, 2005

* 17 mm Tamron, f11, HP5 - and shoot from the hip
* 300mm and shoot only a few images before moving on or sit in a sheltered area.
* TLR - nobody knows what you're doing, looking down into that box on your chest

A person who agrees to have his or her picture taken is interacting with the photographer - not always what you want in an image.

That said, I do not take pictures of children without parental permission- ever. Even then, I know you can get in trouble. My student, getting permission from two mothers to photograph their children playing in a park, was harassed and threatened by a third mother whose child may or may not have moved into the field of view some 30 feet further away.

htmlguru4242 · Nov 15, 2005

Interesting ideas here, all. I definetely try not to take pictures of kids, unles I know them, becuase, as people have said, is quite sad, but that seems to be the way it goes.

I'll see how people react next time I'm out and about with my camera. And, thinking about it, in a crowded city or subway, nobody's going to know what your doing, especially, as Whiteymorange noted, if you are using a TLR.

firecracker · Nov 15, 2005

Les McLean said:
I've done this in both the London Underground and the New York Subway using fast film, 3200 ISO, and my trusty 20mm Nikor lens. A useful dodge is to shoot blind, by that I mean don't put the camera to your eye and either pre focus or use auto focus. Clearly there is no way that you can sk everyone in the carriage. Another tip that I have found to be useful is if someone spots you and looks hard at you, I meet and hold their look but not in an aggressive way. I can't stress enough the need to be seen as not threatening.

Thank you for your advice on this. I'll try that one of these days.

The thing is, lately in Japan, there seem to be so many perverts who use their camera phones and other devices and hold them under women's skirts in the trains. They get caught, and that's onto the national news almost everyday. So apparently a lot of people do not feel comfortable when they have stand next to a guy who has a camera in a confined space. It's just crazy.

rrankin · Nov 15, 2005

I used a Mamya TLR in Manhattan on a number of occasions with no problem. Most times no one even knows what you are doing and probably thinks you are a weirdo, best avoided. When I used a Nikon 35mm with a 70-300 zoom lens, I had no end of glares and gestures. People knew you were pointing at them. My favorite antagonist was a drugged-out street bookseller who was not even in the vaguest direction I was shooting, yelling at me not to take pictures of him for the FBI.... If I did it again, it would be TLR all the way.

Cheers, Richard

Struan Gray · Nov 15, 2005

firecracker. I spent two weeks in Okazaki and Tokyo a few years ago, and took a fair number of photos of people. Many of them cut me a great deal of slack when they saw my Kowa 6x6. Perhaps they thought it was a gun, and they were simply petrified, but my impression was that they respected serious photography in a way that has disappeared in the west. At temples and other tourist sites I couldn't move for old codgers offering me the use of their tripods. My advice would be to be open and straightforward, and look serious about what you're doing. Sneaking about just attracts the wrong sort of attention.

firecracker · Nov 15, 2005

Struan Gray said:
firecracker. I spent two weeks in Okazaki and Tokyo a few years ago, and took a fair number of photos of people. Many of them cut me a great deal of slack when they saw my Kowa 6x6. Perhaps they thought it was a gun, and they were simply petrified, but my impression was that they respected serious photography in a way that has disappeared in the west. At temples and other tourist sites I couldn't move for old codgers offering me the use of their tripods. My advice would be to be open and straightforward, and look serious about what you're doing. Sneaking about just attracts the wrong sort of attention.

Struan, thanks for your input. I just have to make extra effort for that. Maybe I'm just too influenced by the media in a way; indeed I get scared to take pictures of people sometimes, which I never felt when I was in other countries like the U.S. some European countries (Germany, Austria, etc) in the past.

It really seems like I'd better use a big SLR or something equivalent to that size rather than a small and quiet P&S, which might lead some people to think it's a spy camera of some sort. Or a classic camera would be a good choice for that.

gbroadbridge · Nov 16, 2005

Les McLean said:
Children are wonderful subjects but after I had a situation where a parent thought that one of the workshop participants' was photographing her child, accused us of being peadophiles and called the police I no longer point my camera in that direction. Clearly, as responsible people we must first think of the concerns of parents for sadly it's a strange world we now live in..

Les, I'm all for the rights of the photographer to take photos in public places, but I too have confronted someone who was taking unauthorised photos of my child at play. If you wish to take photos of my child, wander over and ask for permission first. By simply doing that you will show that you're not a pederast, are a photgrapher, and think my kid is something special.

Regards
Graham.

Les McLean · Nov 17, 2005

gbroadbridge said:
Les, I'm all for the rights of the photographer to take photos in public places, but I too have confronted someone who was taking unauthorised photos of my child at play. If you wish to take photos of my child, wander over and ask for permission first. By simply doing that you will show that you're not a pederast, are a photgrapher, and think my kid is something special.

Regards
Graham.

..
Fair comment Graham, but no one was photographing the child.

Taking Candids of Random People

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency