T-Max 400 film with T-Max developer

warden · Aug 3, 2021

Have you found the need to develop with less time than Kodak recommends? I'm getting thick negatives and I think the issue is getting to know the developer.

I'm using two cameras whose meters agree with each other and also the light meter app on my phone so the metering isn't suspect, and the dense negatives from each camera are the same. My developing temperature, time, and agitation technique follows Kodak's recommendations exactly. (5 to 7 inversion cycles every 30 seconds, 68°F, 6 3/4 minutes.)

I'll do a test roll at 6 minutes but thought I'd ask for your experiences too. My normal developer is Xtol and I know how it behaves better, so I'm going through some growing pains.

pentaxuser · Aug 3, 2021

I am never sure when I read the MDC if the times given are given by how many people but clearly at least one person has found 5:30 to be right. So a drop to 6 mins in TMax developer may be better in your case.You would not appear to be alone in believing that less time that 6:45 will improve matters

pentaxuser

Tom Kershaw · Aug 3, 2021

I haven't used T-max developer for a while but my recollection was that it is rather "strong" at the 1+4 dilution.

craigclu · Aug 3, 2021

Are the negatives heavy/muddy overall? Are the highlights blown? You may also wish to try less aggressive agitation (and less overall agitation).

warden · Aug 3, 2021

craigclu said:
Are the negatives heavy/muddy overall? Are the highlights blown? You may also wish to try less aggressive agitation (and less overall agitation).

They're not heavy everywhere, just more contrast than expected and blown highlights. That's the other variable I suppose - less time and/or less agitation. Thanks for asking.

warden · Aug 3, 2021

Tom Kershaw said:
I haven't used T-max developer for a while but my recollection was that it is rather "strong" at the 1+4 dilution.

My first roll was a surprise, and had me convinced that I did something wrong. It's strong alright!

Konical · Aug 3, 2021

Good Evening, Warden,

Try T-Max Developer at 1:7 for 9 minutes. A test in a photo magazine (Darkroom Techniques??) in the late 1980's led me to this dilution and I've used it ever since. By the way, the same dilution for 10 minutes works well for T-Max 100. With luck, I can probably find the magazine article and provide it if you wish--no guarantee!

Konical

warden · Aug 3, 2021

Konical said:
Good Evening, Warden,

Try T-Max Developer at 1:7 for 9 minutes. A test in a photo magazine (Darkroom Techniques??) in the late 1980's led me to this dilution and I've used it ever since. By the way, the same dilution for 10 minutes works well for T-Max 100. With luck, I can probably find the magazine article and provide it if you wish--no guarantee!

Konical

Thank you! I would enjoy seeing that article if it’s not too much trouble to find it.

MattKing · Aug 3, 2021

For clarity, are you using T-Max developer, or T-Max RS developer?

warden · Aug 3, 2021

MattKing said:
For clarity, are you using T-Max developer, or T-Max RS developer?

Hi Matt, T-Max developer.

Konical · Aug 4, 2021

"Thank you! I would enjoy seeing that article if it’s not too much trouble to find it."

Good Morning, Warden,

It's not too much trouble. I'm nor completely sure if I still have that magazine. It may take a bit of time.

Konical

Konical · Aug 4, 2021

Good Morning, Warden,

I have located and photocopied three articles from mid-1980's Darkroom & Creative Camera Techniques magazines. I'm not sure they are exactly what I remembered when I sent the previous message; I can only plead that memory can fade a bit after 35 years. Anyway, if you will send a PM with your postal mailing address or just put it in a Forum post, I will send what I have found. I think you will find the articles useful.

Konical

removed account4 · Aug 4, 2021

Hi warden

have you used any other developer besides xtol that you are comparing your t max negatives to? I ask that
because xtol negatives ( for me at least ) are exactly the opposite of t max negatives. the later have density and contrast
and xtol are flat and lifeless. I haven't used t max developer since the 1990s. it was nice stuff I remember .. "crisp" as they used to say.
I've read of many people diluting it like Konical suggests, I'd do that in a heartbeat.
John

warden · Aug 4, 2021

Konical said:
Good Morning, Warden,

I have located and photocopied three articles from mid-1980's Darkroom & Creative Camera Techniques magazines. I'm not sure they are exactly what I remembered when I sent the previous message; I can only plead that memory can fade a bit after 35 years. Anyway, if you will send a PM with your postal mailing address or just put it in a Forum post, I will send what I have found. I think you will find the articles useful.

Konical

PM sent, thanks!

warden · Aug 4, 2021

jnantz said:
Hi warden

have you used any other developer besides xtol that you are comparing your t max negatives to? I ask that
because xtol negatives ( for me at least ) are exactly the opposite of t max negatives. the later have density and contrast
and xtol are flat and lifeless. I haven't used t max developer since the 1990s. it was nice stuff I remember .. "crisp" as they used to say.
I've read of many people diluting it like Konical suggests, I'd do that in a heartbeat.
John

Hey John, I've also used DDX which gives good predictable results. I'll do some experimenting and report back.

Konical · Aug 4, 2021

Good Morning Again, Warden

PM with address received. Mailing should leave 62025 today.

Konical

warden · Sep 20, 2021

Just closing the loop on this thread. I did some more experimenting with TMax developer before pulling the plug and switching to Ilfosol 3. I've been using FP4 in 35mm format and Ilfosol 3 works well with that film, so I tried it with TMax 400 and it worked right the first time, just following the manufacturer's directions. I'm not sure why TMax developer was such a struggle, but I sure fought excessive contrast despite adjusting developing time, dilution, and agitation. Thanks for the advice everyone.

Dismayed · Sep 20, 2021

jnantz said:
Hi warden

have you used any other developer besides xtol that you are comparing your t max negatives to? I ask that
because xtol negatives ( for me at least ) are exactly the opposite of t max negatives. the later have density and contrast
and xtol are flat and lifeless. I haven't used t max developer since the 1990s. it was nice stuff I remember .. "crisp" as they used to say.
I've read of many people diluting it like Konical suggests, I'd do that in a heartbeat.
John

You haven't dialed in your development times with XTOL if your negatives are 'flat and lifeless'. I have no problems using XTOL to increase or to decrease contrast.

removed account4 · Sep 20, 2021

Dismayed said:
You haven't dialed in your development times with XTOL if your negatives are 'flat and lifeless'. I have no problems using XTOL to increase or to decrease contrast.

Totally! I used on and off for a number of years( 2-3? 4?) 3 or 4 different water supplies, mainly 1:1 and stock, first bracketed then heavily over exposed my film ( not in flat light ) and bracketed and heavily over processed Andover agitated my hand tanks and sheet films. Flat and lifeless every frame. I actually *wanted-* good crisp contrasty dense film for I got nothing like that. I should have added dektol into it. Will never use it again. Life’s too short for sh*tty thin film…
Ymmv

Dismayed · Sep 21, 2021

jnantz said:
n and off for a number of years( 2-3? 4?)

jnantz said:
Totally! I used on and off for a number of years( 2-3? 4?) 3 or 4 different water supplies, mainly 1:1 and stock, first bracketed then heavily over exposed my film ( not in flat light ) and bracketed and heavily over processed Andover agitated my hand tanks and sheet films. Flat and lifeless every frame. I actually *wanted-* good crisp contrasty dense film for I got nothing like that. I should have added dektol into it. Will never use it again. Life’s too short for sh*tty thin film…
Ymmv

It's good to have choices. We may have different preferences in negative density. Glad that you found a developer that you like!

removed account4 · Sep 21, 2021

Dismayed said:
It's good to have choices. We may have different preferences in negative density. Glad that you found a developer that you like!

yup.

alanrockwood · Sep 22, 2021

How many ml of Tmax developer (as it comes from the bottle) is the minimum for a 35mm 36 exposure roll?

halfaman · Sep 22, 2021

I always got beatiful results with TMax 400 and TMax Dev 1+4, all done according to Kodak recommendations with 2-3 inversions every 30 seconds. It is one of my all time prefered combinations in B/N but long time without using it (I do color almost exclusively now). I would like to think that nothing has changed and this issue is just a matter of taste...

warden · Sep 22, 2021

halfaman said:
I always got beatiful results with TMax 400 and TMax Dev 1+4, all done according to Kodak recommendations with 2-3 inversions every 30 seconds. It is one of my all time prefered combinations in B/N but long time without using it (I do color almost exclusively now). I would like to think that nothing has changed and this issue is just a matter of taste...

Kodak actually recommends 5 to 7 inversion cycles in 5 seconds, repeated at 30 second intervals, but maybe it makes no difference.

I tried TMax developer several ways, the most conservative being 1:7 dilution and agitation at 2 minute intervals but found excessive contrast. The mid tones looked great but I was getting blown highlights and not enough info in the shadows. I don't know if the formula or contract manufacturer has changed over the years.

Dave Krueger · Sep 22, 2021

I've recently had problems with TMax films in TMax (non-RS) being too dense, but I didn't pursue it in any depth. I tend to develop at 73F instead of 68F, so I have to compensate by using shorter times. Since TMax developer times are already fairly short, I didn't want to shorten the time even further to compensate for the excessive density, so I tried a roll at 1+7 dilution and was quite pleased with the density and contrast. It also has the added benefit of being more economical than 1+4 for one-shot use.

I used to use TMax regularly years ago, before I switched to Xtol, and don't remember ever having this problem then. Could the density issue possibly have something to do with the "new formula"?

As a side note, I tried Leg Pro LMax. I am not sure if LMax was supposed to be a TMax clone, but the developing times they list for TMax 100 and 400 films are considerably shorter than the times Kodak lists for TMax developer. I did not have the density issue with LMax developer at 1+4 dilution using LMax time recommendations, but I was working with TMax 100, not 400. That makes me wonder if I developed TMax films in TMax developer using the times listed in the LMax instructions if I would get normal density and contrast. I didn't try that, though. Since the LMax times were too short for my taste, I would have to switch to the 1+7 dilution if I were to continue to use LMax developer.

Anyway, just relating what I've experienced recently for what it's worth.

T-Max 400 film with T-Max developer

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