T grain emulsions

Simon R Galley · Dec 16, 2013

Dear All,

Each to his own......the photograph is hopefully remembered long after the camera used and the film it was taken on are long forgotten.

I don't think that the technological leap that 'T Grain' films gave us should be underestimated though... PE will keep me right here but this originally came out of developments of colour emulsions, more efficient use of raw materials ( especially silver ) and don't forget 99% of the market wanted full speed emulsions with smaller more uniform ( smoother ) grain.....

CCG ( Controlled Crystal Growth ) made lots of changes to the way we ( ILFORD / HARMAN ) made emulsions, not just the CCG DELTA films, we invested in a completely new emulsion plant ( EP2 here at Mobberley ) to enable us to manufacture emulsions in a variety of ways, including CCG, did you know that CCG is also used in paper emulsions ?

So, as always, whatever you like, conventional or new technology they are all available...a choice still remains, use what you like and creates the photographs you like...

Simon ILFORD photo / HARMAN technology Limited

timor · Dec 16, 2013

Simon R Galley said:
So, as always, whatever you like, conventional or new technology they are all available...a choice still remains, use what you like and creates the photographs you like...

Simon ILFORD photo / HARMAN technology Limited

I hope we will give you enough support to keep up this availability and choice.

miha · Dec 16, 2013

Clive, most (all?) colour film today is of the "T-gran" type, and, as Simon revealed, paper too.

RalphLambrecht · Dec 16, 2013

miha said:
Clive, most (all?) colour film today is of the "T-gran" type, and, as Simon revealed, paper too.

I hope Ilford still aims to be the last 'man' standing in analog B&W photography so, we all have these choicesand can support Ilford/Harman:confused:

miha · Dec 16, 2013

I hope that too. But I also hope that every other manufacturer aim for the same goal. The more the merrier.

Simon R Galley · Dec 16, 2013

Dear Ralph,

Its been in our mission statement from the day HARMAN technology Limited Limited was founded 9 years ago in February 2014:

' We will be the best, and the last in Black & White, and judge our performance on how well we respond to our customers needs'

BUT lets hope we have plenty of competition and for a long time to come, and I'm absolutely sure we shall...we value choice....

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

BradleyK · Dec 16, 2013

Chris Lange said:
This one time I heard that artists could make great images with a technique called pointillism. Horses for courses and to each their own. The only film that matters is the one that works for you and is in your cameras

+1. Could not have said it better myself...:munch:

RalphLambrecht · Dec 16, 2013

c6h6o3 said:
I agree. I couldn't care less about grain, but the tonal qualities of TMY are amazing.

Yes, I use it for studio work()flash photography) and never have to worry about dead shadows or blocked highlights.Nevertheless,with proper exposure and development one should ge the samefrom all the other name -brand films also. the rest is individual preference or just what one is used to.

Vaughn · Dec 16, 2013

megzdad81 said:
I have only fount that Tri-X was the most forgiving of my incredibly stupid errors ...

An excellent point! It becomes a toss-up what film to recommend to our beginning students -- one that is more forgiving with exposure (TMax) or one that is more forgiving with development (Tri-X). We tend to go towards TMax -- at least with developing they are in our darkroom where we can be of some help and try to get them to develop in a consistent manner.

Photo Engineer · Dec 16, 2013

I am not aware of the use of t-grains in paper emulsions.

Ektar uses a mix of conventional cubic grains and t-grains to achieve it's goal of fine grained color.

Both Ilford and Kodak were at the forefront of emulsion improvements. Fuji and Agfa were about 1 generation behind IIRC.. Simon can correct me on this as well as my paper comment above.

And, when I was coating the Kodacolor Gold 400 experiments, there was a team behind us working on it's replacement using t-grains. This was in the era when t-grains cracked and then fogged going around the tiny rollers in 120 and 220 film backs and so a "lubricant" had to be found to allow the emulsion coating to flex.

PE

RalphLambrecht · Dec 16, 2013

PE, thank you for your posts.they are so enriching to APUG.Weare all fortunate to have people such as you,Simon and |Ian in our forums;much appreciated!

c6h6o3 · Dec 16, 2013

RalphLambrecht said:
Yes, I use it for studio work()flash photography) and never have to worry about dead shadows or blocked highlights.Nevertheless,with proper exposure and development one should ge the samefrom all the other name -brand films also. the rest is individual preference or just what one is used to.

Perhaps, but I have difficulty getting prints as good with HP5+ as I do with TMax, I think due to the incredibly long straight line section of TMY's response curve. HP5+ has a relatively abrupt shoulder so I tend to blow highlights with it, especially since I rate the film at either 200 or 100 depending on the shadows. I'll just have to keep working with it, I guess.

Richard S. (rich815) · Dec 16, 2013

RalphLambrecht said:
PE, thank you for your posts.they are so enriching to APUG.Weare all fortunate to have people such as you,Simon and |Ian in our forums;much appreciated!

HUGE +1 to that!

Photo Engineer · Dec 16, 2013

Well, thanks guys. Just trying to help.

PE

Athiril · Dec 16, 2013

I really like Delta 400 for many things, though I tend to use Tri-X a lot more, also keen on Acros, and exploring Delta 100 too.

Xmas · Dec 17, 2013

c6h6o3 said:
Perhaps, but I have difficulty getting prints as good with HP5+ as I do with TMax, I think due to the incredibly long straight line section of TMY's response curve. HP5+ has a relatively abrupt shoulder so I tend to blow highlights with it, especially since I rate the film at either 200 or 100 depending on the shadows. I'll just have to keep working with it, I guess.

Have you tried a softer working developer or using less time?

RattyMouse · Dec 17, 2013

Photo Engineer said:
Well, thanks guys. Just trying to help.

PE

PE, I go out of my way to read your posts. Even in topics I'm not interested in!!! Seriously.

Keith Tapscott. · Dec 17, 2013

All types of B&W films from the main manufacturers have their merits. I am a long time user of FP4 Plus and HP5 Plus films, but the T-Max, Delta and Acros are also excellent films. Film choice is a very personal thing.

I really like Kodak TMY2 for studio portraiture and it performs brilliantly in standard developers like D-76 & ID-11 diluted 1+1. The skin tones are superb with that film and I am sure that Ilford's Delta 100 & 400 films are as well.

Tony Egan · Dec 17, 2013

Photo Engineer said:
Well, thanks guys. Just trying to help.

PE

Much appreciated as usual. I have always admired your even-tempered and polite responses and willingness to contribute generously to this forum.

And for my two cents, my test is looking at the best print I can make which each kind of film. I prefer non-T films. I just like the prints more with traditional grained films. I perhaps lack the technical vocabulary to explain what I see but its something to do with insipid mid greys and the steep drop to full black I have experienced. I'm sure I could get better with practice, but while TX400, FP4 and HP5 are around they will be my best friends in the camera.

mfohl · Dec 17, 2013

What an enlightening and enriching thread. Thanks to all.

Xmas · Dec 17, 2013

Tony Egan said:
Much appreciated as usual. I have always admired your even-tempered and polite responses and willingness to contribute generously to this forum.

And for my two cents, my test is looking at the best print I can make which each kind of film. I prefer non-T films. I just like the prints more with traditional grained films. I perhaps lack the technical vocabulary to explain what I see but its something to do with insipid mid greys and the steep drop to full black I have experienced. I'm sure I could get better with practice, but while TX400, FP4 and HP5 are around they will be my best friends in the camera.

You may need to split grade print with burn and dodge routinely then.
I don't mind grain so I use expired HP5 and Foma 400 in 135. Split grade is my norm anyway, bad negs, so a tabular is not a problem when I use it.

Truzi · Dec 17, 2013

RattyMouse said:
PE, I go out of my way to read your posts. Even in topics I'm not interested in!!! Seriously.

+1

Ian Grant · Dec 17, 2013

When Agfa improved AP25 and AP100 which were already excellent films releasing APX25 and APX100 they were alongside Kodak & Ilford in terms of quality, in fact if anything they were a touch ahead. APX100 was a stop faster in practice than Tmax 100 to get a similar tonal rage and good shadow details both gave similar sharpness & fine grain.

Agfa lagged behind with their 400 ISO emulsion though.

Ian

NB23 · Dec 17, 2013

Ian, tmax100 is extremely fine grained while apx100 was very coarse for a iso 100 film. And yes, apx 100 had a tonality that was hard to beat.

pbromaghin · Dec 17, 2013

RattyMouse said:
PE, I go out of my way to read your posts. Even in topics I'm not interested in!!! Seriously.

Same here.

T grain emulsions

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