T grain emulsions

Photo Engineer · Dec 14, 2013

Clive, natural? Go get a lump of mica. In its natural state, it resembles the form or look of t-grains in a photomicrograph. So nature creates what man makes in a lab.

As for lying flat, yes they do. They come out of the hopper flat, they are coated flat and compress down into a flat layer. In fact, they are so flat that on small rollers in some cameras, the grains can crack going around the bend unless the right "lubricants" are used in the emulsion.

They develop to give silver images that are similar to K grains, but they stop more light and thus give higher speed with lower grain.

PE

removed account4 · Dec 14, 2013

cliveh said:
I suppose a good analogy would be is it OK to have a tooth filling or a face lift?

its just film ...
its too bad people are so hung up on all the small stuff.

MattKing · Dec 14, 2013

Michael R 1974 said:
PE, don't waste your time on this nonsense.

Actually, Michael, I think PE's explanation was illuminating - at least to me.

And would be quite helpful to someone reading this thread with less experience.

Roger Cole · Dec 14, 2013

MattKing said:
I use two black and white films - Plus-X and TMY-2.

When my Plus-X is gone, I'll transition to T-Max.

Both Plus-X and TMY-2 appeal to my sensibilities. I will have to work a bit, but I'm sure T-Max will be fine too.

If you like Plus-X why switch to a tabular film like TMX when you run out, in preference to, say, FP4+? The latter isn't identical to Plus-X by any means but for me it's a lot more like it than TMX is. If the new attempt at something like APX 100 is good that might be a choice too.

Just asking, I'm not a t-grain hater by any means but I used to use Plus-X and I've found I really like FP4+ now.

Colin Corneau · Dec 14, 2013

Thomas Bertilsson said:
It doesn't matter. Not even a bit.

Either you're good at making photographs, or you're not. The film? Not worth thinking too much about.

Well said, as always.

I love regular films, and from using them over the years I've come to like TMY/TMY-II...that's just my personal style/decision. I respect the OP's just as much, although not sure I'd use the terminology he did.

Wayne · Dec 14, 2013

I've never tried them!

MattKing · Dec 14, 2013

Roger Cole said:
If you like Plus-X why switch to a tabular film like TMX when you run out, in preference to, say, FP4+? The latter isn't identical to Plus-X by any means but for me it's a lot more like it than TMX is. If the new attempt at something like APX 100 is good that might be a choice too.

Just asking, I'm not a t-grain hater by any means but I used to use Plus-X and I've found I really like FP4+ now.

I have a lifelong attachment to Kodak - so if I am going to have to switch, I will tend to look for a Kodak alternative.

I've shot some T-Max before, and like the fact that it shares the same development time with TMY-2 for a lot of developers.

I like and respect and highly recommend Ilford products, but when you have a father who worked 36 years for Kodak, and grew up with Kodak people all around you, sometimes you make decisions that take into account other factors than those that might apply to others.

And a choice of T-Max is certainly not a compromise!

Roger Cole · Dec 14, 2013

MattKing said:
I have a lifelong attachment to Kodak - so if I am going to have to switch, I will tend to look for a Kodak alternative.

I've shot some T-Max before, and like the fact that it shares the same development time with TMY-2 for a lot of developers.

I like and respect and highly recommend Ilford products, but when you have a father who worked 36 years for Kodak, and grew up with Kodak people all around you, sometimes you make decisions that take into account other factors than those that might apply to others.

And a choice of T-Max is certainly not a compromise!

Makes sense and nope, certainly not a compromise at all. TMX is a great film, its just less similar to Plus-X than FP4+ is.

Vaughn · Dec 14, 2013

I have made beautiful 16x20 prints from TMax100 in HC-110 (obviously biased about the quality).

Don't use it now due to the UV blocking is has (but not in TMax400) since I alt process w/ UV light. Use FP4+ mostly for that now.

TMax100:

jerrybro · Dec 15, 2013

The Tmax family has worked fine for me.

c6h6o3 · Dec 15, 2013

My best work is on TMY. I've switched to HP5+, but only because 5x7 and 8x10 TMY sheets are now special order. I have yet to make prints from HP5 negatives which rival my efforts on TMY. I've had to change my process a lot. You can make beautiful prints from negatives shot on any film.

Bill Burk · Dec 15, 2013

I uploaded a print (Heart Lake) taken on TMY-2 to the gallery to illustrate this discussion.

Having long-preferred fine-grain traditional film (you know, Panatomic-X) for nature photography, I was making a change to 4x5 and decided to give TMAX 400 a try. The first real trip, the section of John Muir Trail from Reds Meadows to Florence Lake, I brought back photographs that gave me all the qualities I expect from black and white film photography.

Since I love the photographs, I simply transfer that feeling to the film.

Cliveh, you can easily see the differences between a traditional and a tabular grain film, and I assume that you don't like the oversharpened effect that is so common today... But in specific cases, your prejudice might be broken down if you get to know it ... one print at a time.

timor · Dec 15, 2013

Ian Grant said:
Films are as good as their users and poor workmen blame their tools. There aren't nay poor films available these days they are all cpable of excellent results once you tame them.

Ian

Well said Ian.

As for OP, you just need to do some real testing to find out your way with T-grain. Many did it already, so can you. Just believe in it.

BradS · Dec 15, 2013

I really do not understand the fuss. I like and use Kodak TMY-2, Ilford Delta 100 and Ilford FP4+ and HP5+ as well as both flavors of Kodak Tri-X.
Honestly, I don't find anything to dislike about the current offerings from Ilford and Kodak. All of them are simply superb.

nworth · Dec 15, 2013

Films vary. My guess is there there are a lot off non-Tgrain films that you would not like also.

RalphLambrecht · Dec 15, 2013

in my view TMax 400 was probably the best &Wfilm ever madein 120. virtually no grain up to 11x14 enlargements.

Guillaume Zuili · Dec 15, 2013

Come on guys He has the right to have a taste and an opinion.
He doesn't like T film. He is not the only one. And that's it.

It doesn't mean more than what it just said.
He also has the right to not be willing to work on that film if he doesn't want to.
And I also don't think he is on a crusade to ban T film from being used.

We have a nature of habits. We get use to stuff.
See, I have been used to drink Bourgogne long time ago. And I love Bourgogne.
Now in many occasions I have to drink Pinot Noir.. I don't like Pinot Noir !!!!
Both are wines but one needs Alka Selzer to be tamed.

Don't shoot me but I don't like T-grain, Pinot Noir & Alka Selzer.
It's just my taste. Use what suits you, either your soul or stomach !
And I'm happy for you if your taste is different.

At least we all shoot film...

mfohl · Dec 15, 2013

I don't like the T-Max films. I tried 'em and didn't like 'em. But Alka-Seltzer works great for my headaches. And I'm not really a wine drinker. Give me a Stella or a Rogue Dead Guy.

Richard S. (rich815) · Dec 15, 2013

I like TMY but sometimes find it too smooth and almost digital-like in its look. Some who dislike grain might like that. For some subjects to me it's a look that works, but not much. Usually I prefer Tri-X or HP5 or even better Neopan 400 as I slowly use my stash in my freezer. I'm just happy we still have a few to choose between.

eddie · Dec 15, 2013

I have a preference for traditionally grained films, but used T-Max 100 in ReadyLoads. I thought it was excellent, and am quite happy with the results I got from it. I still have some, and have no hesitation in using it. I do have some in 120, but usually opt for FP4+. I've no doubt that, given time with it, I'd get equally satisfying results in 120.

Thomas Bertilsson · Dec 15, 2013

Guillaume Zuili said:
Come on guys He has the right to have a taste and an opinion.
He doesn't like T film. He is not the only one. And that's it.

It doesn't mean more than what it just said.
He also has the right to not be willing to work on that film if he doesn't want to.
And I also don't think he is on a crusade to ban T film from being used.

We have a nature of habits. We get use to stuff.
See, I have been used to drink Bourgogne long time ago. And I love Bourgogne.
Now in many occasions I have to drink Pinot Noir.. I don't like Pinot Noir !!!!
Both are wines but one needs Alka Selzer to be tamed.

Don't shoot me but I don't like T-grain, Pinot Noir & Alka Selzer.
It's just my taste. Use what suits you, either your soul or stomach !
And I'm happy for you if your taste is different.

At least we all shoot film...

Give me a nice tannic Barolo or Barbaresco any day... Those Italians make decent wine. 2009 was a good year.
Just had a lovely Bordeaux, though. Was good with cauliflower au champignon.

I agree G. We are entitled to our tastes. Shoot what you love, and have fun.
Today I developed four rolls of film, three of them TMax 400 and one Tri-X. I may be blind, but they are both remarkable films.

removed account4 · Dec 15, 2013

i see what you are saying guillaume

i hate fresh film, and it doesn't matter what brand or style or code name
i can see why he doesn't like t grained films it can be different, finicky look strange
or whatever ... but in my opinion its just film
and the t grains don't look any different than tri x grains when steeped in coffee ..
it just looks like foggy, stained, reticulated, grainy film ...

i don't like shooting tmx (100 ) with artificial light (flash) all the highlights block and
it is a time-drain to try to print, tmy(1at least) doesn't block ..

vive le vin et le difference!

john

Chris Lange · Dec 15, 2013

This one time I heard that artists could make great images with a technique called pointillism. Horses for courses and to each their own. The only film that matters is the one that works for you and is in your cameras

c6h6o3 · Dec 15, 2013

RalphLambrecht said:
in my view TMax 400 was probably the best &Wfilm ever madein 120. virtually no grain up to 11x14 enlargements.

I agree. I couldn't care less about grain, but the tonal qualities of TMY are amazing.

megzdad81 · Dec 15, 2013

I have only fount that Tri-X was the most forgiving of my incredibly stupid errors ...

T grain emulsions

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