Switching to RC paper

Hello everyone,
I've been using fiber for a long time, mostly Ilford, with a few excursions into other brands here and there. As I've become more and more spartan and environmentally conscious in my chemicals (I'm down to HC-110 and Diafine) as well as my practices in the darkroom; there is still one glaring problem: my use of water for an archival print. I cringe as I watch the gallons of water go down the drain. It has caused me to print less than I'd like, so I've decided to make the switch to RC.

I looked yesterday at all the papers available, and to get small boxes for the size I'll like to test for all of them, would be somewhere around a thousand dollars. I wish to cut that number in half. So I need the expertise of RC users in the forum to guide me to a smaller selection.

Here is what I like. I like a satin or pearl surface, a matte surface of course. I like my prints as neutral as possible in color, but I don't mind a little bit of cool, or warmth for some images.

What are the papers that will resemble fiber closest?
Cost is not paramount, but availability is.
Any help will be appreciated.
Best regards,
Steven Quiñones-Colón

Hello everyone,
I've been using fiber for a long time, mostly Ilford, with a few excursions into other brands here and there. As I've become more and more spartan and environmentally conscious in my chemicals (I'm down to HC-110 and Diafine) as well as my practices in the darkroom; there is still one glaring problem: my use of water for an archival print. I cringe as I watch the gallons of water go down the drain. It has caused me to print less than I'd like, so I've decided to make the switch to RC.

I looked yesterday at all the papers available, and to get small boxes for the size I'll like to test for all of them, would be somewhere around a thousand dollars. I wish to cut that number in half. So I need the expertise of RC users in the forum to guide me to a smaller selection.

Here is what I like. I like a satin or pearl surface, a matte surface of course. I like my prints as neutral as possible in color, but I don't mind a little bit of cool, or warmth for some images.

What are the papers that will resemble fiber closest?
Cost is not paramount, but availability is.
Any help will be appreciated.
Best regards,
Steven Quiñones-Colón

Sorry, I posted in the wrong forum.

Ilford Multigrade. Using various developers you can get that slightly cool or slightly warm image with it and it comes in either satin or pearl surfaces. I personally find very little difference between pearl and satin but apparently other people do and prefer one to the other. Pearl is more commonly available.

Have a look at Fotospeed's RCVC paper with oyster finish. This is very similar to a pearl surface and the paper is fairly neutral but can be 'warmed' up with the appropriate developer. Grade for grade it offers more contrast then Ilford papers. If you normally print on Ilford grade 2 you may want to print on grade 1.1/2 on the Fotospeed. It also tones well in selenium.

I am sure you've looked into methods of cutting down your water use, but have you looked into the Ilford method of using two 5-minute wash cycles with a hypo-cleaning soak in between? I have the exact same concerns about using (wasting) water in the processing of FB paper, so I have only printed on RC paper so far. I really like the Ilford MGIV paper, for what it's worth.

options in RC over FB

I am partial to pearl Ilford MG IV. It is the nicest neutral RC paper that I know of that is also easy to find. The warmtone MG version is nice as well.

The other option is to consider finding or making a low flow cascade washer, and stick with FB.

A cascade washer is basically a series of trays that syphon/overflow down to a tray below. You start out with the print out of the fixer into the lowest tray, to rinse, then can do a hypo clear bath, then back into the washer on the second tray up. Move the print to the next highest tray after x minutes, and then to the highest tray for the final wash. Water goes into the top tray.

The highest cascade washer I have found in my readings is four trays high. I think they were popular around the NE USA due to high water rates; Boston rings a bell.

The other option is to read up on Rowland (Ron) Murray (here aka Photo Engineer) and his work on a fixer known as Superfix. Commercially the Formulary sells a close relative as TF-4.

I use these for FB paper, without an acid stop bath (frequently changed water only between dev and fix). I keep track of the pH of the fix, and have to adjust it from time to time due to alkaline carry over from the developer.

These fixes work very quickly, so there is little opportunity for fixer to find it s way deep into the paper fibres, where it is the hell to wash out. Wash times are quite short, and there is no need for a HCA bath.

If you are really concerned about wash water, hunt down a Fuji FRSS10. It is a resin filter fitted to reservoir that will take residual silver out of wash water. There is a test circuit to let you know when enough ion exchange has been done in the upper reservior, before draining it out the dottom, where then you can recylce the water as fresh wash water. When the filter is saturated, you mail it back to the service depot for silver recovery.

I'll cast another vote for Ilford Multigrade. It matches the Fiber multigrade pretty closely, as one might expect. I don't care for the pearl surface myself, but the glossy and matte surfaces aren't too bad. Kentmere RC is a little colder than Ilford, but the tonal range of the two are very close.

squinonescolon said:

Sorry, I posted in the wrong forum.

Click to expand...

Moved to B&W and merged with duplicate thread.

Thanks Mike, I'll look into your suggestions.

FIBER BASE

PLASTIC click me

www.Leica-R.com

DanielOB said:

FIBER BASE View attachment 12572

PLASTIC View attachment 12573 click me

www.Leica-R.com

Click to expand...

That's as ridiculous as stating that oil painting is great and watercolour is crap.



Steve.

on another angle,

Do you realize how much water is used to bring Thanksgiving Turkey to your dinner table? The gallons upon gallons to grow the stock grain, the water to feed the turkey itself, and so on? Then there's the water that goes into the truck that transported the turkey from the farm to here, the water that was frozen into ice to keep the turkey from spoiling, well you get the idea.

And then there's your dinner fork. Untold amounts of water mixed with lubricant is poured on those hot machining drills nonstop during the manufacture of your utensils.

The oven in which the turkey will be baked - its power came from some power plant that almost certainly harnesses the energy of water steam to move turbines.

Your Thanksigiving dinner napkin - very likely, it's made from cotton. The cotton needed water to grow, too.

In the grand scheme of things, water down the drain is nothing. It's not like the water disappears. It gets processed and ends up in the general water supply of earth.

Worrying about pouring fixer down the drain... worrying about all those test strips and bad prints filling up landfills - that's reasonable. Your water concern doesn't compare. Don't give up fiber.

Happy Thanksgiving!

The environmenal arguements between RC and Fibre based to me are a non-issue. The water arguement is fair at first sight, but in reality the water compared to what goes down the bath tub or shower over a month is miniscule. Unless you print each day, (I do it once a week max) then you should think more about taking less showers and baths, and rub yourself down with a damp cloth, if you want to save water.

RC is plastic, non-recyclable, and all those wasted test prints are non-degradable last I heard, and FB can be pulped and recycled in my paper waste recycling bin.

Make the choice on aesthetics (and convenience...the fact that RC is washed quickly...not the water amount makes a difference to me).

Having said all that, I am with the Ilford MG IV Warmtone RC (Pearl) crowd.....though ironically, I am just about to start using FB

What about the poor biodegradability of your RC paper scrap print & test strips etc ?

Personally I'd stick with FB but impose a strict regime to cut water usage, Some water can be recycled, rainwater collected and filtered then used,. We live by the sea, and although we will move will still be near to the sea so I plan to use sea water for print washing when I finally move my enlarger from the UK. I have no choice water is expensive here it comes into the town by tanker most of the year, or comes from a borehole behind our kitchen if the reservoir/lake is drying up, but that water is heavily salt laden.

Just before we move I'll pay a visit to "The Centre for Alternative Technology" in Machynlleth, Wales and look at how best to recycle as much of our water as possible, at best it can wash a few more films at worst irrigate a small vineyard and what's left go to the olive trees

BTW do you have Hydroquinone for blood your name "Quiñones-Colón" is very interesting can you enlighten us about it's origin.

Ian

On this general subject of RC print surfaces, I wish that other manufacturers would follow Foma's lead and sell a swatch book. It stinks to have to buy a box of paper to find out what a manufacturer's interpretation of "matte" or "semi-matte" is.

At one time all good shops/dealers had a swatch book of the papers they sold. I have an Agfa pack which is a fraction better of all their papers circa 86/87 small postcard size print off each.

I've never bought any paper without seeing a sample first.

Ian

Screw the environmental view, some of us pay for our water!

I pay too - although there is more than plenty available up here. Having said that, I think we should all be making sure we don't waste water whether we pay or not. I prefer fibre prints but do mostly RC because of the potential water waste washing fibre. Use Kentmere Select VC mostly

DanielOB said:

FIBER BASE View attachment 12572

PLASTIC View attachment 12573 click me

www.Leica-R.com

Click to expand...

Very funny!

I'm a photogravure practitioner. So when I want images on "paper" I'll use that process exclusively from now on. But photogravure is a very demanding process, so I print most of my images in the darkroom, or inkjet. I prefer the darkroom.

My father's last name root in latin means a group of five. Many centuries ago in Spain, farmers where given plots of land that they would work together, in spanish quiñon. As the practice grew, people in this areas (mainly Asturias) were call by the name Quiñones. It's a somewhat common name. Colón is my mother's last name. It's a very old name, also from Spain, and very common. I'm originally from P.R. and live in the bay area in San Francisco.
Steven

Not to get back on topic, but I'm partial to Kentmere's VC Select in Pearl. I prefer that to Ilford MG, myself.

Akki14 said:

Screw the environmental view, some of us pay for our water!

Click to expand...

I can assure you we pay far more than UK prices for our mains water. That's why it's necessary to think environmental, that means be economic recycling & saving money

Ian

I remember being shocked when I moved to Montreal and discovered that water is not metered - i.e. you pay a flat fee through your taxes and have unlimited water consumption.... I suspect that doesn't provide people much incentive to conserve the stuff!

Akki14 said:

Screw the environmental view, some of us pay for our water!

Click to expand...

Hear-hear.
And in this area we are in a pseudo-drought condition--and don't get me started on the North/South Kalifornia water wars--where my rate is based upon past usage (unfortunately during a time when I did not do my own developing/printing) and the fee for usage above my base-line is triple.
So yeah, I'm looking for ways to $ave water, and I use RC, a marginally large supply of surplus Kodabrome and Polycontrast RC.

ilford makes ( or used to make? ) a paper called rc portfolio.
it had the feel of fb but it was rc. i liked it a lot ...

there are ways to wash fb prints ( wash hypo clear / prema wash / fix remove ) that
can reduce your wash times. and then there is the wash itself, you can do a few long soaks
and let osmosis do the trick.

in any case ilford makes some nice rc papers ... and if processed / treated right they will
last a long-long time.

good luck!

john

ps great story of your last name. mine means absolutely nothing, it was made up ...