switching papers...how much difference?

[BetterSense]

I just got into chemical photography recently by buying a pack of 25 Ilford MGIV pearle finish 8x10 paper and Kodak chemicals from a local store. Right now I'm using them only as paper negatives for pinhole cameras and contact printing to the same paper, but I have an enlarger and eventually I am going to print 35mm. I'm almost out of the paper and I was wondering how this Arista paper compares to the Ilford paper that I have been using, because it is much cheaper. I just don't know if it's going to significantly change my pinhole camera or contact printing exposure times or if there are other differences I don't know of; if it's going to be a completely start-over experience or if it's going to be pretty much the same as the Ilford paper.

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/18682-Arista-EDU-Ultra-VC-RC-Semi-Matte-8x10-25-Sheets?cat_id=501

 

[E76]

It's definitely going to be different; Arista paper is manufactured by Foma, and paper characteristics vary from one manufacturer to another. Your times will change, and it will look different, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I and others, for example, use several different brands of paper depending on what we're going for. "Starting over," as you put it, is not as bad as it seems; a few simple tests and you'll be back on track.

 

[BetterSense]

Ok I think I will wait to try Arista paper until I need more stuff from Freestyle; I'm planning a largish order within the next couple months. When I run out of paper I'll buy more Ilford locally; it never hurts to have both kinds at once after all I guess.

 

[wogster]

I just got into chemical photography recently by buying a pack of 25 Ilford MGIV pearle finish 8x10 paper and Kodak chemicals from a local store. Right now I'm using them only as paper negatives for pinhole cameras and contact printing to the same paper, but I have an enlarger and eventually I am going to print 35mm. I'm almost out of the paper and I was wondering how this Arista paper compares to the Ilford paper that I have been using, because it is much cheaper. I just don't know if it's going to significantly change my pinhole camera or contact printing exposure times or if there are other differences I don't know of; if it's going to be a completely start-over experience or if it's going to be pretty much the same as the Ilford paper.

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/18682-Arista-EDU-Ultra-VC-RC-Semi-Matte-8x10-25-Sheets?cat_id=501

Switching papers is not always difficult, you do need to keep a couple of things in mind, different papers need different exposure and processing times, so you may need to use a few sheets to get the exposure and developing times right, note also that even with the correct exposure and processing times, the result may look different.

If you plan on using a lot of paper, then sometimes a larger package can work out cheaper, lots of darkroom workers will buy a 50 or 100 sheet package rather then a 25 sheet package, because on a per sheet basis it's cheaper. What many people do is keep the packages from paper and then when they have say 4 or 5, the buy a 250 sheet package, split it into 50 sheet bundles, and put all but one in the freezer. This means a predictable paper supply for a year or more. Some papers will vary slightly from batch to batch, so a larger package means a known paper supply for a longer period.

Remember that an 8x10 sheet can be cut in half for a 5x8 (which you can trim an inch off for 5x7), and can be quartered to get 4 4x5 sheets. This also saves money because you don't need to "stock" the smaller sizes. A 4x5 "proof" print will often tell you whether the image should be printed larger.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I agree with Paul.

I am at fault with this myself, and am about ready to tear my hair out at my own stupidity, but try not to keep too many papers around. It can actually get confusing, and it's difficult to develop a feel for each paper. To get an average or good print with several kinds of papers is OK, but to get the really fine prints I'm pretty confident that keeping one or two papers around is preferable. Then you'll really learn how to push the limits of that particular paper and learn the inns and outs, as well as develop a sort of instinct of what you need to do to get the most from a particular negative without too much paper wasted.

The work flow will not change, but how the paper prints and looks is going to be different.

There is merit in trying new things, but giving a paper the benefit of a doubt and trying it for a good while is wise.

What prompts you to switch now? Price?

 

[BetterSense]

Only price. Cheaper paper lets me shoot and print more. Already I am stopping from printing some of my lesser negatives because it takes two sheets to make a pinhole print and that's about $1.50 per shot, more if it takes a couple tries to get the contact printing exposure or D/B right. I know that's not a lot but I'm poor. The Arista paper is almost twice as cheap.

 

[wogster]

Only price. Cheaper paper lets me shoot and print more. Already I am stopping from printing some of my lesser negatives because it takes two sheets to make a pinhole print and that's about $1.50 per shot, more if it takes a couple tries to get the contact printing exposure or D/B right. I know that's not a lot but I'm poor. The Arista paper is almost twice as cheap.

If cost is a factor you want to buy larger quantities of fewer papers, so pick a paper finish that you like, buy a variable contrast paper in one or two sizes. Fort example a 8x10 25 sheet package of the Arista sells for 9.89 or 39½¢ per sheet, a 100 sheet box is $33.99 or 34¢ per sheet a savings of 5½¢ per sheet, not a large savings. A 250 sheet box costs $72.99 or 29¢ per sheet, a savings of 5¢ per sheet over the 100 sheet box, and 10½¢ per sheet over the 25 sheet package. To properly calculate savings you need to add the cost of shipping to your order. You also have to figure it in, when dealing with costs versus the web and local photo shop. For example if the local shop is selling paper for $17 a package, and it's $9.99 online with a $10 shipping charge, then buying online actually costs more.

Another way to save money on paper, is to make a smaller size print, you can get a paper trimmer from many photographic stores, but many office supply stores also have them, possibly much cheaper. You want the rotary blade type, not the guillotine type, it's too easy to lop the end off a finger under the safe light and that will ruin the paper, not to mention a perfectly good finger.

 

[Alex Bishop-Thorpe]

Something I've found handy is cutting an 8x10 sheet down to four 4x5's - the same aspect ratio as 8x10, and they fit into 4x5" negative sleeves for filing. I find this to be good for making general prints, just so I have something larger than a 35mm contact print to assess, and you can get the composition down too. A 100 sheet box becomes 400 sheets, and it scales up to full size when you want to make a proper print.