Susan Sontag

MattKing · May 17, 2015

I find Ken's use of a "surgeon" analogy to be entertaining, given what I understand to be the similarities between how many surgeons deal with the world and how Annie Liebowitz deals with a photo shoot. (The worh "ego" comes to mind)

I've dealt with enough different photographers to know that skill as a photographer does not equate in any meaningful way with credibility when it comes to communicating with the written word.

That being said, in any discussion about "how", being able to "do" certainly adds credibility.

And in any discussion about "why", having been able to "do" for an extended period of time also adds credibility.

cliveh · May 17, 2015

MattKing said:
I find Ken's use of a "surgeon" analogy to be entertaining, given what I understand to be the similarities between how many surgeons deal with the world and how Annie Liebowitz deals with a photo shoot. (The worh "ego" comes to mind)

Some people have an ego the size of the Empire state building and the talent the size of a matchbox.

k.hendrik · May 17, 2015

cliveh said:
Where can I find a book of images by Susan Sontag? She must have done one to make such a critique of images by others!

"I see nobody on the road," said Alice.

"I only wish I had such eyes," the king remarked in a fretful tone. "To be able to see Nobody! And at that distance too!"

Nobody walks with Where on this road.........

Colonel Blimp · May 17, 2015

This thread started with a whiff of sexism. Now it stinks.

cliveh said:
How true. Some years ago I read or heard (and don't know if this is true) that women have about 15% greater manual dexterity than men. For this reason alone I now have a female dentist.

Ken Nadvornick · May 17, 2015

cliveh said:
How true. Some years ago I read or heard (and don't know if this is true) that women have about 15% greater manual dexterity than men. For this reason alone I now have a female dentist.

Colonel Blimp said:
This thread started with a whiff of sexism. Now it stinks.

Sexism? Umm...

That was a compliment based on a possible real-world physiologic difference. Wouldn't you like to have 15% greater manual dexterity than you have right now? I sure would.

One needs to be careful when attempting to apply Political Correctness to the last five million years of evolution. Some things really are different. By design and for very good reasons.

Women also generally live significantly longer than men. Is that fact of nature and evolution also sexist?

Ken

frank · May 17, 2015

Sontag is great bedtime reading! Just can't finish that book.

gzinsel · May 17, 2015

That about sums it up. Can i have the last word FOR ONCE!"" GOSH

Ken Nadvornick · May 17, 2015

frank said:
Sontag is great bedtime reading! Just can't finish that book.

"Call me Ishmael."

Pioneer · May 17, 2015

I have read On Photography because I am a curious person and, since I do enjoy reading, I thought I would read the book to see what all the fuss was about. I still cannot understand why it is considered "required reading" by so many.

The book has not improved my photography one whit. Neither has it improved my understanding of why I take photographs. It hasn't even enlightened me to understand why anyone else takes photographs. I cannot for the life of me understand why it would even matter to anyone why Susan Sontag thinks we take photographs, or why photography even exists.

The only explanation for this that I can conceive is that photographers as a group generally have a rather poor self image. The fact that a respected practitioner of an academic discipline found photography important enough to describe it in philosophic terms has become a wondrous thing. So wondrous that all photographers must immediately accept her somewhat obscure ramblings as the basis for all things photographic and that events occurring since the publication of that book are proof beyond doubt that Susan was a psychic. This smacks a bit of the Nostradamus beliefs to me.

If you enjoy that type of writing then by all means enjoy the read. I found her book very boring, her style very pretentious. She certainly makes great use of the European Academic style of highly stilted writing to make herself appear more knowledgeable.

If you are taking a course in university where some professor has insisted that you must read this book, do as best you can with it. If you need to produce some report when you are finished I am sure you can find enough information in the threads on the topic here on APUG to produce a nice one.

Xmas · May 17, 2015

APUGuser19 said:
She was an "activist". (where is the eye-roll smiley on here?) In my 58 years I've had it up to my eyebrows with these people. I have no doubt that college professors push her material.

Hi Laura

Jackpot Susan's monograph is required reading on some of our arts degree courses.
But as well as writing critically she directed four films of her own books...

The half of the mono I managed to read was a perspective that would not harm. Then she went 'ape'.

Noel

CropDusterMan · May 17, 2015

blansky said:
I find that very humorous and see it all the time. At concerts, and other events.

It's like they were almost there. Very heady stuff.

Ya, I just shake my head. LOL.

CropDusterMan · May 17, 2015

She was actually a looker in her youth...she didn't suffer fools lightly.

pdeeh · May 18, 2015

Yeah, well why didn't she just stand around looking pretty instead of bothering us men with her stupid female opinions?

frank · May 18, 2015

pdeeh said:
Yeah, well why didn't she just stand around looking pretty instead of bothering us men with her stupid female opinions?

Please put a winky after that. Otherwise people might think you're serious and label you sexist.

TheFlyingCamera · May 18, 2015

While I may not agree with everything (or even most of) Sontag's theory of photography, I think that it takes a dispassionate observer of a medium to be able to formulate a theory about it. Otherwise you're too caught up in the doing of the medium to be able to analyze it. And as to her harsher, more strident critics, if you disagree with her formulation, why not write your own and dispute her?

Xmas · May 18, 2015

TheFlyingCamera said:
While I may not agree with everything (or even most of) Sontag's theory of photography, I think that it takes a dispassionate observer of a medium to be able to formulate a theory about it. Otherwise you're too caught up in the doing of the medium to be able to analyze it. And as to her harsher, more strident critics, if you disagree with her formulation, why not write your own and dispute her?

It was what I call the Sally Mann syndrome, ...
Susan got on her high horse about photographers who don't move with the times.

If I'm painting my house I clean the brushes for future years.

A lot of people ask why I'm still using film the uniform answer - I've not got a digital camera yet.

Mostly it is not pejorative merely curiosity.

darkosaric · May 18, 2015

cliveh said:
Some people have an ego the size of the Empire state building and the talent the size of a matchbox.

And often big ego helps to be famous (and rich) more than talent, not only in photography. Funny is the world where we live.

blansky · May 18, 2015

cliveh said:
Some people have an ego the size of the Empire state building and the talent the size of a matchbox.

Fame and fortune have no real traceable path.

Self promotion is often a major factor. Narcissism is often a major factor. Religion/ethnicity/contacts are often a major factor. Single mindness/one trick pony talent is often a major factor.

Hard work can get you to levels, as can talent but reaching the "top" has little to do with talent per se.

But you have to get into the fray in order for you to have a chance at that holy grail.

blansky · May 18, 2015

APUGuser19 said:
Being in photography all my life, I've often felt estranged from others in my field. ......

9 years after being actively involved with others in my field, I divorced THEM.

I found all we did is copy each other and celebrate each others sameness.

I struggled for years to develop my own path.

georg16nik · May 18, 2015

The best thing after Susan Sontag's “On Photography” aftermath is that you can recover with the Memoirs of Leni Riefenstahl.

TheFlyingCamera · May 18, 2015

APUGuser19 said:
Being in photography all my life, I've often felt estranged from others in my field. Thy had their "leanings" and were plenty vocal and activist about it. I often felt an outsider, or friction at best. It was not until much later in life that I discovered the fact that their ilk was and is; a minority. They only seemed a majority because of their propensity to be aggressive and activist. In actuality, the reason they are so militant is because they are quietly avoided, which isolates them to inbreed their views amongst themselves, which makes them even more as they are.

I might point out that Barry Goldwater was a noteworthy photographer, as well as a radio man. And certainly a more level-headed personality. Definitely one who I'd prefer behind me in a foxhole.

What does being in a foxhole have to do with photography, particularly as a leisure activity (as it is for most of us here) or even as a professional pursuit? For photographic companions, I'd much rather have folks around me whose work is different from my own, to encourage my non-stagnation, and who are critically appreciative of my work - that is, they get what I'm trying to do and why I'm trying to do it, but won't let me take the easy way out of getting there.

pdeeh · May 18, 2015

Bizarre

RobC · May 18, 2015

I read on a forum somewhere years ago that Sontag wrote her diatribe on photography as a reactionary repost to her then photographer boyfriend/partner who had just dumped her. Her later retractions of its content were her saying she didn't really mean it. If true then she shouldn't have said it in the first place as it demosntrates a complete lack of integrity. And given her later retractions, why are colleges still putting it on their reading lists?

blansky · May 18, 2015

APUGuser19 said:
I googled up who she was, saw a photo with that gray going on, and had her pegged, as I am so able to accurately do. I can spot the ilk instantly.

Hmmm. Interesting.

frank · May 18, 2015

Besides "On Photography", another book where the title was so much better than the content, was "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance".

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