Survey: Non-mainstream photographic processes are - Name it!

Dutch Alt Photo · Oct 28, 2015

AlternativePhotography.com and DAP (Dutch Alternative Photography) are holding a survey to establish what you consider as non-mainstream photographic processes, what is the most suitable collective name for non-mainstream photography and what are the different types of user groups.

Please see: Non-mainstream photographic processes are - Name it! for participation.

The aim of this survey is to define non-mainstream photographic techniques and to collect data for defining various user groups. The motivation arose from the results of the study Alternative Photography Practices Worldwide. The study demonstrates, among others, unclear communication regarding non-mainstream photographic processes and the desire for long term sustainability in the field. The aspiration for this survey is assistance in achieving long term sustainability, by providing establishments in the field of non-mainstream photographic processes input for effective communication.

The surveys results will be published and available online.

mooseontheloose · Oct 28, 2015

The link isn't working for me.

Oxleyroad · Oct 28, 2015

I filled it out

RobC · Oct 28, 2015

Please define mainstream photographic processes so that we know that anything else is non-mainstream. Hang on a minute, won't that answer your question?

I think Mike Wares site is a good reference. http://www.mikeware.co.uk/mikeware/Conspectus.html

dwross · Oct 28, 2015

Please add "silver gelatin dry plate", "handmade film", and "handmade silver gelatin paper" to your survey. Thank you.

NedL · Oct 28, 2015

I filled it out but could not answer several of the questions that required only one answer.
I think some of the same ambiguity exists for the term "alternative photography" which I don't like all that much.

DannL. · Oct 28, 2015

I practice "Photography" in it's many different forms. Each method is called "Photography", and falls under the category of "Photography". Photography doesn't require redefining. If new image making methods, call them "mainstream methods", are invented then the inventors of those methods will have to determine if it falls under the category of "Photography". Otherwise they can find a new name for their technique. Maybe they can call it . . . "Imaging". So sorry, the term "Photography" is already in use. Try again.

RobC · Oct 28, 2015

DannL. said:
I practice "Photography" in it's many different forms. Each method is called "Photography", and falls under the category of "Photography". Photography doesn't require redefining. If new image making methods, call them "mainstream methods", are invented then the inventors of those methods will have to determine if it falls under the category of "Photography". Otherwise they can find a new name for their technique. Maybe they can call it . . . "Imaging". So sorry, the term "Photography" is already in use. Try again.

Tell that to the digital photographers.

DannL. · Oct 28, 2015

RobC said:
Tell that to the digital photographers.

"Digital Imaging" is the invasive species here. Not "photography".

Ohh! Wait! I use digital, also. But you know what . . . I never compare my digital imaging to any other work. That would be akin to comparing horses to bicycles.

pschwart · Oct 28, 2015

The survey questions and categories need work. Ask the wrong questions and you will get the wrong answers. Silver printing on baryta and RC paper get their own listing (WHY?), but carbro and color carbon, for example, are completely absent. Collodion is listed umpteen times, as is pinhole. The term "emulsion" is used many times, mostly incorrectly. Does anyone really think "Lomography" is a technique? Why is a film developer (caffenol) a separate line item on the list of techniques? Photopolymer and photogravure are mentioned, but not collotype. The "This is another one of the main photographic techniques I use" drop-down does not match the contents of the "I PRIMARILY use the following photographic technique" list. It's nice to see oil prints listed, but it should read "Rawlins" not "Rawlings."

skorpiius · Oct 28, 2015

"what is the most suitable collective name for non-mainstream photography"

Hipsterography

Slixtiesix · Oct 29, 2015

Filled it but I agree that it was sometimes hard to decide on one definite answer.

Dutch Alt Photo · Oct 29, 2015

mooseontheloose said:
The link isn't working for me.

Try https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1jWgwoOUbVQBsQu0r_82slrYbSHPMqOrMPiM5L2p6jEA/viewform, Rachelle ((there was a url link here which no longer exists)). Thanks for participating.

RobC said:
Please define mainstream photographic processes so that we know that anything else is non-mainstream. Hang on a minute, won't that answer your question?

I think Mike Wares site is a good reference. http://www.mikeware.co.uk/mikeware/Conspectus.html

Part of the survey (question 2) is to let users define it,(there was a url link here which no longer exists), since people have different ideas on this matter.

dwross said:
Please add "silver gelatin dry plate", "handmade film", and "handmade silver gelatin paper" to your survey. Thank you.

Silver gelatin dry plate is mentioned as 'Gelatin silver print on glass plate'; handmade film is now added as 'Film photography with handmade film' and handmade silver gelatin paper is also added as 'Gelatin silver handmade paper'. These techniques are added to the extensive list of 'most used techniques', but are not added to the list of primary techniques, since these are not popular techniques. Thank you for the comment (there was a url link here which no longer exists).

pschwart said:
The survey questions and categories need work. Ask the wrong questions and you will get the wrong answers. Silver printing on baryta and RC paper get their own listing (WHY?), but carbro and color carbon, for example, are completely absent. Collodion is listed umpteen times, as is pinhole. The term "emulsion" is used many times, mostly incorrectly. Does anyone really think "Lomography" is a technique? Why is a film developer (caffenol) a separate line item on the list of techniques? Photopolymer and photogravure are mentioned, but not collotype. The "This is another one of the main photographic techniques I use" drop-down does not match the contents of the "I PRIMARILY use the following photographic technique" list. It's nice to see oil prints listed, but it should read "Rawlins" not "Rawlings."

Thank you for your extensive comment,(there was a url link here which no longer exists), as you can see in my comment above, the optional techniques given in the question 'I PRIMARILY use the following photographic technique' are based on the popular techniques drawn from the previous survey. That is why it contains only some of the techniques and not all. Rawlings has been corrected - thank you again .

I hope all possible techniques are now mentioned. For those how use other techniques, please fill those in, in the question 'The technique I use was not mentioned in the above questions. It is:'. Due to technical reasons, it will be impossible to add techniques to the survey in a later phase.

Thank you all for participating in the survey. It would be great if you could also promote it among your friends/colleagues.

dwross · Oct 29, 2015

Dutch Alt Photo said:
Silver gelatin dry plate is mentioned as 'Gelatin silver print on glass plate'; handmade film is now added as 'Film photography with handmade film' and handmade silver gelatin paper is also added as 'Gelatin silver handmade paper'. These techniques are added to the extensive list of 'most used techniques', but are not added to the list of primary techniques, since these are not popular techniques. Thank you for the comment (there was a url link here which no longer exists).

As far as I know, 'Gelatin silver print on glass plate' is not a thing. I suppose it could be if a dry plate were reversal processed, or perhaps you mounted a print on glass. Far better to call the process what everyone recognizes it as: "Dry plate" or "Silver Gelatin Dry Plate." That is the name in all the history books. It is the name of the Facebook group with 365 members since it was formed only about a year ago, and it is the name of highly successful workshops at the Eastman Museum. It is the name given to the process by Google and Wikipedia. My book, which uses that term, is selling very well. The same is true for Christopher James' and Jill Enfield's books of alternative processes.

If you want an accurate survey of people participating in a process, you might consider calling it something recognizable. Dry plate photography may be more popular than you know .

DannL. · Oct 29, 2015

Another observation. The section titled "I consider myself to be a:" appears to be leaving out some of the most obvious choices . . . ie;

Photographer
Photographic Artist
Photographer/Printer

I'm have come to the conclusion that the survey has been complied with little to no experience or understanding of historical photographic processes. Somebody needs to bone up on "The History of Photography", and the terms in common use. It has the feel of a class project that was slapped together in a pub. In that light, how could I possibly take this survey seriously?

pschwart · Oct 29, 2015

dwross said:
As far as I know, 'Gelatin silver print on glass plate' is not a thing. I suppose it could be if a dry plate were reversal processed, or perhaps you mounted a print on glass. Far better to call the process what everyone recognizes it as: "Dry plate" or "Silver Gelatin Dry Plate." That is the name in all the history books. It is the name of the Facebook group with 365 members since it was formed only about a year ago, and it is the name of highly successful workshops at the Eastman Museum. It is the name given to the process by Google and Wikipedia. My book, which uses that term, is selling very well. The same is true for Christopher James' and Jill Enfield's books of alternative processes.

If you want an accurate survey of people participating in a process, you might consider calling it something recognizable. Dry plate photography may be more popular than you know .

I had no idea what 'Gelatin silver print on glass plate' was, either. I assumed this was Liquid Light on subbed glass for positive prints. There is probably someone doing this, but dry plate is dry plate

pschwart · Oct 29, 2015

Dutch Alt Photo said:
Try https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1jWgwoOUbVQBsQu0r_82slrYbSHPMqOrMPiM5L2p6jEA/viewform, Rachelle ((there was a url link here which no longer exists)). Thanks for participating.

Part of the survey (question 2) is to let users define it,(there was a url link here which no longer exists), since people have different ideas on this matter.

Silver gelatin dry plate is mentioned as 'Gelatin silver print on glass plate'; handmade film is now added as 'Film photography with handmade film' and handmade silver gelatin paper is also added as 'Gelatin silver handmade paper'. These techniques are added to the extensive list of 'most used techniques', but are not added to the list of primary techniques, since these are not popular techniques. Thank you for the comment (there was a url link here which no longer exists).

Thank you for your extensive comment,(there was a url link here which no longer exists), as you can see in my comment above, the optional techniques given in the question 'I PRIMARILY use the following photographic technique' are based on the popular techniques drawn from the previous survey. That is why it contains only some of the techniques and not all. Rawlings has been corrected - thank you again .

I hope all possible techniques are now mentioned. For those how use other techniques, please fill those in, in the question 'The technique I use was not mentioned in the above questions. It is:'. Due to technical reasons, it will be impossible to add techniques to the survey in a later phase.

Thank you all for participating in the survey. It would be great if you could also promote it among your friends/colleagues.

You ignored most of my comments. Fair enough Unless the survey gets some much-needed editing, though, I am going to respectfully decline to participate.

TheToadMen · Oct 30, 2015

Done.

Does anyone of you still remember the World Journal of Post-Factory Photography?
See: http://www.lotusviewcamera.at/books/postfactoryphotography_e.html
And
http://www.alternativephotography.com/books/post_factory_issue1.pdf

Bert from Holland
http://thetoadmen.blogspot.nl

pschwart · Oct 30, 2015

pschwart said:
I had no idea what 'Gelatin silver print on glass plate' was, either. I assumed this was Liquid Light on subbed glass for positive prints. There is probably someone doing this, but dry plate is dry plate

Thinking about this some more ... this also describes glass lantern slides which were quite common, even in larger formats, until mid-20th century. Using accepted names definitely aids communication

Dutch Alt Photo · Feb 10, 2016

The findings of the survey are now available on:
http://www.alternativephotography.com/…/survey-result-non-m… and http://dutchalternativephotography.blogspot.nl/p/survey.html
Thank you for all how participated.

mooseontheloose · Feb 10, 2016

Thanks! It was interesting to read the results.

Survey: Non-mainstream photographic processes are - Name it!

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