Surprisingly... good? results from very expired ORWOCOLOR NC19 film.

real_liiva · Jun 29, 2023

I recently got my hands on some very expired (expired in 1987 i believe, stored in room temp its entire life) ORWOCOLOR NC19 film. Spent the entire first roll and a bit of the second one cutting 6 exposure long strips to figure out exposure and development. The base fog on this film is really intense. I ended up settling on EI 3 which is almost a 5 stop overexposure compared to box speed. It's meant to be developed in the orwo c-5168 process, which is vaguely similar to the C22 process but uses CD1 as its developer. I obviously didnt have any of this on hand so i decided to process it in C41 at various times and temperatures. After playing around a while i settled on 8 minutes at 24C as my C41 development time and this seems to have worked well in combination with shooting at EI 3.

The curves were very crossed as well as there was there was a red shift but most of it could be corrected and the colors are otherwise seemingly proper (not accurate, but at least red is red, green is green and blue is blue).

It might be hard to tell in the compressed scans i attached, but despite the 5 stop pull the film has quite noticeable grain. I can't imagine how grainy it would be at box speed lol. I'm pretty sure this film isn't t grain or similar but just old cubic grain.

koraks · Jun 29, 2023

Some years ago I played around with some pretty old (1980s) Kodak color sheet film. I don't recall what it was, but I think it may have been some kind of duplicating/process film. It sort of did 'OK' at around the same speed you shot this at and then with a LOT of digital magic. I can't find the examples anymore - but perhaps that's actually a good thing

Anyway, like you, I found that this very old film sometimes sort of works if you're prepared to experiment a bit, and digital output is fine.

I also occasionally (very rarely) shoot some 1990s-expired Vericolor film that works sort of OK-ish even for optical printing if overexposed by about 2 stops (at least). For its age, it performs quite well, although it's obviously crossed over into very 'interesting' territories!

lamerko · Jun 29, 2023

Interesting results. I'd say they're quite a bit better overall than the examples published in recent years with this film

A small feature of the ORWO NC19 - it is balanced at 4200K - neither daylight nor tungsten.
I recently decided to start a project to experiment with old films. I started looking for old photo films, chemicals, information and formulas... Because of nostalgia, I collected a lot of ORWO films - B&W and color. Of course, my budget is not unlimited, and for this reason I avoid listings with absurd prices. Unfortunately, color negative (NC) films are very few and far between - supply is low and prices too high. On the other hand, I got a lot of reversible films. In the search, I emphasized the 35mm, because the paper used for the 120/620 films of ORWO predisposes to a strong biological infection. In the end, I also got lucky - I got a 60 meter roll of NC3 - this is a color negative cinema film, which, like NC19 is 19 din, but tungsten balanced. I also found all the required chemicals for the processes. I will start the experiments soon. I expect a high base fog on all ORWO films and so some of my experiments will be aimed at countering the fog. I actually did the first technical samples to test the chemicals and got some very unexpected results…

real_liiva · Jun 29, 2023

lamerko said:
Interesting results. I'd say they're quite a bit better overall than the examples published in recent years with this film

A small feature of the ORWO NC19 - it is balanced at 4200K - neither daylight nor tungsten.
I recently decided to start a project to experiment with old films. I started looking for old photo films, chemicals, information and formulas... Because of nostalgia, I collected a lot of ORWO films - B&W and color. Of course, my budget is not unlimited, and for this reason I avoid listings with absurd prices. Unfortunately, color negative (NC) films are very few and far between - supply is low and prices too high. On the other hand, I got a lot of reversible films. In the search, I emphasized the 35mm, because the paper used for the 120/620 films of ORWO predisposes to a strong biological infection. In the end, I also got lucky - I got a 60 meter roll of NC3 - this is a color negative cinema film, which, like NC19 is 19 din, but tungsten balanced. I also found all the required chemicals for the processes. I will start the experiments soon. I expect a high base fog on all ORWO films and so some of my experiments will be aimed at countering the fog. I actually did the first technical samples to test the chemicals and got some very unexpected results…

I suspect that ORWO reversal films are probably practically identical to the negative versions just with a clear base not an orange one (with how much they cut costs by using ancient CD1 based developers up until at least the 80s, doubt they made a considerably different emulsion for their reversal). IIRC the development for orwo reversal is shockingly similar to how some do bw + C41 reversal, with there being a light reexposure step to fog the film for color development. With developing as negative and scanning probably near identical results could be gained and i doubt attempting to darkroom print orwo film is a sane choice, especially considering any RA4 paper would be designed to work more with c41 films and real ORWO color paper in usable condition would be rarer than gold. Worst case i reckon you could probably use a small strip of bleached and fixed undeveloped orwo negative film as a color filter in the enlarger.

lamerko · Jun 29, 2023

The fogging chemical then used was notoriously poisonous. For this reason, a re-exposure procedure is introduced in the domestic treatment processes. I have the variants without this step, but even if you can find this chemical, it is not very wise to use it. The C-9165 process is standard for reversal - B&W developer, stop, re-exposure (replaces the poisonous fogging chemical), color developer, bleach and fix. In fact, this process is related to Agfa's AP-41. About CD1 - it's their patent as far as I know. His election has nothing to do with the financial side. Otherwise, the films and chemical formulas of ORWO remained unchanged for a long time, until the beginning of the 90s. Negative and reversible films may be similar in chemistry, but they are not the same. I expect from my stock that reversible films are better. In the beginning, their negative films had no mask. After the announcement - they start writing "MASK" on the boxes, mostly on NC-19. But despite the hype, their colors were... not very good. On the other hand, the reversibles, especially the UT-18 had very vibrant colors

gorbas · Jun 29, 2023

real_liiva said:
I recently got my hands on some very expired (expired in 1987 i believe, stored in room temp its entire life) ORWOCOLOR NC19 film. Spent the entire first roll and a bit of the second one cutting 6 exposure long strips to figure out exposure and development. The base fog on this film is really intense. I ended up settling on EI 3 which is almost a 5 stop overexposure compared to box speed. It's meant to be developed in the orwo c-5168 process, which is vaguely similar to the C22 process but uses CD1 as its developer. I obviously didnt have any of this on hand so i decided to process it in C41 at various times and temperatures. After playing around a while i settled on 8 minutes at 24C as my C41 development time and this seems to have worked well in combination with shooting at EI 3.

The curves were very crossed as well as there was there was a red shift but most of it could be corrected and the colors are otherwise seemingly proper (not accurate, but at least red is red, green is green and blue is blue).

It might be hard to tell in the compressed scans i attached, but despite the 5 stop pull the film has quite noticeable grain. I can't imagine how grainy it would be at box speed lol. I'm pretty sure this film isn't t grain or similar but just old cubic grain.

Well done! Congratulation! Colours look beautiful! Much better than in original ORWO colour negative back in the day. I still have one "found" exposed roll of ORWO NC-19 somewhere.

blee1996 · May 15, 2024

Recently I got 5 rolls of NC19 (expired in 1992), and thanks to OP @real_liiva I have a starting point of processing. In the end

My exposure:
- ISO 3
C41 processing
- Very exhausted Bellinic C41 kit (capacity 16, already developed 18 rolls)
- Room temperature 75F (it was a warm day) for all chemicals
- Color developer: 10 minutes, continuous agitation first 30 seconds, then 15 seconds for each minute
- Bleach and fixer: 5 minute each

And the results were quite decent, and the palette is interesting. I did custom white balance using a x-rite color checker passport. Then some black levels in Lightroom Classic.

loccdor · May 15, 2024

I like it! Artistically colorful results. I have some black and white Svema 125 of a similar age which also needs exposure around ISO 3. I was going around with a f/1.2 lens with it in full sun

lamerko · May 15, 2024

And I decided to start tests with my ORWO color films. My first experience was with two reversible films - UT-18 (50ASA) and UT-21 (100ASA). The first of the two was scorched by heat and time. With the second one, things were interesting - the base fog level was low, but the image was extremely thin. Too low a density makes it almost impossible to scan the film. I am attaching the two best shots.
The two frames are at EI50, home-cooked chemistry 5168/cross (maybe with a problem?), 10 min at 21 degrees.

foc · May 16, 2024

blee1996 said:
Recently I got 5 rolls of NC19 (expired in 1992), and thanks to OP @real_liiva I have a starting point of processing. In the end

My exposure:
- ISO 3
C41 processing
- Very exhausted Bellinic C41 kit (capacity 16, already developed 18 rolls)
- Room temperature 75F (it was a warm day) for all chemicals
- Color developer: 10 minutes, continuous agitation first 30 seconds, then 15 seconds for each minute
- Bleach and fixer: 5 minute each

And the results were quite decent, and the palette is interesting. I did custom white balance using a x-rite color checker passport. Then some black levels in Lightroom Classic.

Great images. Reminds me of Agfa CNS colour pallet. AFAIK Orwo colour was based on the Agfacolor principles.

blee1996 · May 16, 2024

Thank you all for the encouragement, and it is fun to keep those ancient film alive.

@foc incidentally I developed a 127 roll of Agfa CNS (expired 1974) in the same tank as the Orwo NC19, and I did get some results. Since the Agfa is 50 years old, I exposed at ISO 1. Same C41 processing. The colors are much more muted, and more cross overs. But it still produces images that faintly resembles reality. I much prefer the stronger colors from the 20 years younger NC19.

RysanKarel · Jun 16, 2024

Hi. Karel from Prague here. I might need some help with Agfacolor CT13, expired Jan 68. It is for the fun of it. Just shooting flowers in the garden..... so nothing to loose...

blee1996 · Jun 16, 2024

RysanKarel said:
Hi. Karel from Prague here. I might need some help with Agfacolor CT13, expired Jan 68. It is for the fun of it. Just shooting flowers in the garden..... so nothing to loose...

Good luck with your experiment, and hope to see your results soon.

Surprisingly... good? results from very expired ORWOCOLOR NC19 film.

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Surprisingly... good? results from very expired ORWOCOLOR NC19 film.

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