Superfix questions

curiousart · Jul 12, 2017

Hi Folks,

I'm about to mix up a batch of P.E.'s Superfix. This will be my second ever try at from-scratch chemistry, so two newbie questions are to follow.

-In most of the other standard photo chemical recipes I've read, the first ingredient is usually some heated quantity of water, so that the dry stuff dissolves. Not so in this one, unless it's understood. Will the dry stuff dissolve in the room temperature liquids?

-When I'm done, I'll have 1 liter of Superfix. Is this considered to be a stock solution, where in use, it'll be diluted at, say, 1:4? What proportions have people been using this at?

Thanks, go easy on me

Rudeofus · Jul 13, 2017

curiousart said:
-In most of the other standard photo chemical recipes I've read, the first ingredient is usually some heated quantity of water, so that the dry stuff dissolves. Not so in this one, unless it's understood. Will the dry stuff dissolve in the room temperature liquids?

The ingredients to Ron Mowrey's Superfix are either liquid, or very soluble. Heating the water is only necessary for Sodium Thiosulfate based fixers, since the Sodium Thiosulfate comes as crystals, and it chills down the water as it dissolves. You should not need heated water for any Ammonium Thiosulfate based fixer formula.

curiousart said:
-When I'm done, I'll have 1 liter of Superfix. Is this considered to be a stock solution, where in use, it'll be diluted at, say, 1:4? What proportions have people been using this at?

Superfix I is supposed to be used full strength.

curiousart · Jul 13, 2017

Thanks, Rudeofus--I'm going to whip some of this up tonight. Are the recipes available for Superfix 1-7? Haven't stumbled across them yet.

Art

Rudeofus · Jul 13, 2017

Ron never published them AFAIK. Look further down his Superfix I thread and you understand quickly why he didn't. One of the most advanced fixer formulas ever published received nothing but vitriol, accusations and uninformed rants. If you put in some visible effort regarding fixer tests and optimization, Ron has proven more than helpful, both in public and in private.

curiousart · Jul 14, 2017

Well, I'm pretty stunned that anyone would joust with this guy. I just ran my first test roll thru his Superfix--HP5 plus clears in 20 seconds, possibly less, because I probably spent 5 or 6 seconds staring at the cleared film clip in disbelief. I'm quite happy. If you're reading this, Ron, thank you.

Photo Engineer · Jul 14, 2017

Hah, my latest will clear in 15" and finish washing in about 30 seconds. But, I am loathe to post it because the ingredients are expensive and some are not very nice. So, you are welcome and enjoy superfix.

Please test your film and paper for retained silver after you wash them to make sure that your workflow is correct.

Thanks very much for your comments and for trying it.

PE

MattKing · Jul 14, 2017

Would someone be kind enough to post a link to the recipe for Superfix I?

MattKing · Jul 14, 2017

Do I assume correctly that the above is added to water?
Do I assume correctly that I start with 800 ml of water and add 200 ml of the Ammonium Hypo solution in order to end up with a litre of working solution that has Ammonium Hypo at the correct working strength?
Is Ammonium Hypo the same as Ammonium Thiosulfate?
This is film fix. I usually use paper fix at half the strength I use film fix. Would this be a good approach if I used this fixer for paper?
I usually re-use film fixer. What sort of capacity and keeping qualities might I expect from Superfix?

curiousart · Jul 14, 2017

MattKing said:
Do I assume correctly that I start with 800 ml of water and add 200 ml of the Ammonium Hypo solution in order to end up with a litre of working solution that has Ammonium Hypo at the correct working strength?

I added the 800ml of water at the end, hope that was the right thing to do.

curiousart · Jul 14, 2017

Photo Engineer said:
Hah, my latest will clear in 15" and finish washing in about 30 seconds. But, I am loathe to post it because the ingredients are expensive and some are not very nice. So, you are welcome and enjoy superfix.

Please test your film and paper for retained silver after you wash them to make sure that your workflow is correct.

Thanks very much for your comments and for trying it.

PE

You bet, thank you for making it available! Unless Superfix VII will not only fix my film, but also make a martini the way I like it, I can be satisfied with Superfix I.

I'm definitely going to perform tests on my film and paper...one of the frustrations I had that made me stop printing and developing for a while, was that most of my RC prints had degraded in less than 5 years.

Alan Johnson · Jul 14, 2017

I believe "Ammonium Hypo" means a 60% solution of ammonium thiosufate. I'm not sure if you could just use proprietary rapid fixer instead.

curiousart · Jul 14, 2017

Alan Johnson said:
I believe "Ammonium Hypo" means a 60% solution of ammonium thiosufate. I'm not sure if you could just use proprietary rapid fixer instead.

I used ammonium thiosulfate 60%.

lantau · Jul 14, 2017

MattKing said:
Do I assume correctly that the above is added to water?
Do I assume correctly that I start with 800 ml of water and add 200 ml of the Ammonium Hypo solution in order to end up with a litre of working solution that has Ammonium Hypo at the correct working strength?
Is Ammonium Hypo the same as Ammonium Thiosulfate?

When mixing different solutions you never add X + Y and expect to get the added volume. The combined solution can have a smaller volume than the sum of the single solutions. You always fill up to the desired volume at the end.

The Thiosol (60% Ammonium thiosulfate solution) is quite concentrated. I would add water to ~800mL and then dissolve the additional components. Once fully dissolved add water to 1000mL.

200mL Thiosol in 1000mL of final solution is the 1+4 dilution you use with commercial fixer concentrate. So I'd say it is working solution.

In the original message on PN our esteemed PE mentioned he'd eventually publish how it worked for him with paper. Is that information anywhere? Fixing FB paper in 20s would be really great for efficient washing.

Photo Engineer · Jul 14, 2017

I have not published the paper data yet. It works just fine at about 1:1 up to 1:9 with paper, with the fixing time adjusted for dilution, as well as wash time. Test with retained hypo and retained fixer test solutions.

I have 5 years of keeping on various wash times here and the wash times look good.

Just be careful that you don't make it too strong. Any stronger, and the fixer can cause reticulation with some films.

PE

fdonadio · Jul 14, 2017

I've read (and follow the advice) that fixing time should be double what it takes for the base to clear.

Based in that, Superfix would give a fixing time of 40 seconds. I find it difficult to deal with such short times.

I've heard it's pretty hard to overfix with Sodium-Thiosulphate-based fixers. What can I expect from Superfix?

Rudeofus · Jul 15, 2017

Photo Engineer said:
But, I am loathe to post it because the ingredients are expensive and some are not very nice. So, you are welcome and enjoy superfix.

Times have changed, and forum folks have grown much more sympathetic to your contributions than 10+ years ago. Should you be attacked or insulted, hordes of vicious forum members will come to your help.

I implore you: after a decade of teasing, post the formula for Superfix II-VII already. We might actually learn something from Superfix's change over time and come up with an improved SuperFix version, which has seen much broader testing, and with everyone fully aware who drove its development.

Photo Engineer · Jul 15, 2017

fdonadio said:
I've read (and follow the advice) that fixing time should be double what it takes for the base to clear.

Based in that, Superfix would give a fixing time of 40 seconds. I find it difficult to deal with such short times.

I've heard it's pretty hard to overfix with Sodium-Thiosulphate-based fixers. What can I expect from Superfix?

Then dilute superfix.

PE

fdonadio · Jul 15, 2017

Photo Engineer said:
Then dilute superfix.

Thanks, PE, for the great idea I didn't think of. I'm gonna try it as soon as I get some thiocyanate.

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Jun 30, 2021

What's the capacity of Ron's Super Fix 1l when used undiluted? And what's the washing time for film?

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Jul 1, 2021

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
What's the capacity of Ron's Super Fix 1l when used undiluted? And what's the washing time for film?

Nobody other than PE used his SuperFix?

fdonadio · Jul 1, 2021

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
What's the capacity of Ron's Super Fix 1l when used undiluted? And what's the washing time for film?

I didn’t have residual hypo or residual silver tests. I still use Superfix and it works great, both for film and paper. I am sure I wash a lot longer than needed.

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Jul 1, 2021

fdonadio said:
I didn’t have residual hypo or residual silver tests. I still use Superfix and it works great, both for film and paper. I am sure I wash a lot longer than needed.

Nice! How many rolls do you process in 1l of SuperFix before discarding the fixer?

Rudeofus · Jul 2, 2021

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
Nice! How many rolls do you process in 1l of SuperFix before discarding the fixer?

AFAIK Ron never claimed several superior properties of his Superfix formula, but improved capacity was not among them. Since it does not contain large amounts of other ingredients, and since its Ammonium Thiosulfate content is comparable to commercial rapid fixers, I would assume a similar capacity level. The main purpose of the extra ingredients is to speed up fixation and washing, not miraculous capacity boosts.

fdonadio · Jul 2, 2021

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
Nice! How many rolls do you process in 1l of SuperFix before discarding the fixer?

I think I fixed around 30 rolls of film with one liter once, but I had to re-fix the last batch (I usually process 4 rolls at once), as they were not completely fixed. I wouldn’t go past 20 or maybe 24 rolls per liter.

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Jul 2, 2021

Rudeofus said:
since its Ammonium Thiosulfate content is comparable to commercial rapid fixers, I would assume a similar capacity level.

fdonadio said:
I think I fixed around 30 rolls of film with one liter once, but I had to re-fix the last batch (I usually process 4 rolls at once), as they were not completely fixed. I wouldn’t go past 20 or maybe 24 rolls per liter.

That's encouraging, thanks!

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