Super White versus Arctic White?

Hi,
I'm new to lighting and is in the process of setting up my first small studio for filming. I'm going to use a GVM 1500d to shine directly on a white background and I'm choosing between a Super White paper background from Colorama and a Arctic White paper background also from Colorama (both backgrounds available locally where I live).
I'm leaning toward the Super White background since I want the background to be as white as possible, but I'm a little worried that it will be slightly too white and will reflect some of the white back on the subject and outshine the contours of the face (I guess I'm not that interested in High Key if I understand the term correctly, as I want some contrast on the subject's face, though still with as white background as possible.) On the other hand, I've read that Arctic White could be a little blue and in some cases reflect back a slightly blue tinge on the subject.

Based on your experience, what do you think would be best for what I'm trying to do, Super White or Arctic White?

Thanks in advance for the help!

/Jonas

Hi, first, welcome to photrio.com.

Personally I'd prefer the super white, but it probably doesn't make that much difference. The Arctic white seems to have a slight bluish tint, but you could probably just change the "white balance" of your camera slightly to cancel that out.

You said, "I'm going to use a GVM 1500d to shine directly on a white background ...". Do you mean to use it specifically as a background light?

Fwiw, if you are fairly new to photography overall, it might be helpful to get a copy of the book, Light, Science and Magic.... older versions are fine for this sort of thing.

Best of luck with your project.

Mr Bill said:

Hi, first, welcome to photrio.com.

Personally I'd prefer the super white, but it probably doesn't make that much difference. The Arctic white seems to have a slight bluish tint, but you could probably just change the "white balance" of your camera slightly to cancel that out.

Click to expand...

Such is correction is typically done to react on the colour-temperature of the lighting, in this case though we have it about the colour or hue of a part of the subject.

In this case though one might argue that the effect in compensating the bluish hue of the backdrop is benefitial over introducing tghe same time a reddish hue on the rest of the subjct. Maybe this is your point.

Any white will reflect back on the subject if they are close enough to the background. Try putting them at least 6' in front of the background. Also, it depends on how much light you have pointed directly at the background. Sometimes the reflected light will give you a nice bit of rim lighting or a hair light. Also, using the white balance in your camera to neutralize a tint in the background will affect the overall color balance of the photo, possibly making the subject warmer than you intend. You would be better off adjusting the background in photoshop, just selecting it to make it the white you want. Experiment.

Mr Bill said:

Hi, first, welcome to photrio.com.

Personally I'd prefer the super white, but it probably doesn't make that much difference. The Arctic white seems to have a slight bluish tint, but you could probably just change the "white balance" of your camera slightly to cancel that out.

You said, "I'm going to use a GVM 1500d to shine directly on a white background ...". Do you mean to use it specifically as a background light?

Fwiw, if you are fairly new to photography overall, it might be helpful to get a copy of the book, Light, Science and Magic.... older versions are fine for this sort of thing.

Best of luck with your project.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the welcome and reply. I'm also leaning towards getting the Super White, there's not that much of a price difference so I'm reasoning the most white would be better as long as it wouldn't reflect back more white than the Arctic White.

Yes I intend to use one GVM 1500d as a background light and I will have two other GVM 1500d in front of the subject (myself) to lessen shadows on the subjects face and body.
I will definitely get a copy of the book Light, Science and Magic. It seems like the perfect book for me who is completely new to photography.

You might want to watch Zack Aria's shooting on white videos on youtube:

AgX said:

Such is correction is typically done to react on the colour-temperature of the lighting, in this case though we have it about the colour or hue of a part of the subject.

In this case though one might argue that the effect in compensating the bluish hue of the backdrop is benefitial over introducing tghe same time a reddish hue on the rest of the subjct. Maybe this is your point.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. Do you mean that it is better to avoid having to compensate for a bluish hue (which could be the case while using Arctic White) and instead just having it as white as possible from the beginning to avoid having to compensate afterwards?

Pieter12 said:

Any white will reflect back on the subject if they are close enough to the background. Try putting them at least 6' in front of the background. Also, it depends on how much light you have pointed directly at the background. Sometimes the reflected light will give you a nice bit of rim lighting or a hair light. Also, using the white balance in your camera to neutralize a tint in the background will affect the overall color balance of the photo, possibly making the subject warmer than you intend. You would be better off adjusting the background in photoshop, just selecting it to make it the white you want. Experiment.

Click to expand...

Thanks also for the reply. I will try to situate the subject at least 6' in front of the background, although it might be difficult due to my space for filming will be rather small and I intend to have the subject also sitting on the background (if possible making it appear as if the subject is sitting in an abstract space of whiteness).
I will have just one GVM 1500d pointed directly at the background and two GVM 1500d in front of the subject, but I'll have the background light shining at a stronger effect than the two in front, as I've gathered that it will also make the background appear whiter if the background light is a little stronger than those in front.
I'll be sure to experiment to try to learn how to get the most white background and how to edit it afterwards (though it might be a little tricky to edit it too much afterwards since I'll mostly shoot videos). If I understand you correctly, you mean that it would be difficult to get the white balance right merely by using the camera settings (since it might mess with other color balances) and it therefore is best to have your physical background setup with the preferred white at the start or to edit it afterwards in a photo editing software.

Pieter12 said:

You might want to watch Zack Aria's shooting on white videos on youtube:

Click to expand...

Thanks for the link, it seems like a great tutorial for a newbie as me. Will check it out.

JEM8 said:

Thanks for the reply. Do you mean that it is better to avoid having to compensate for a bluish hue (which could be the case while using Arctic White) and instead just having it as white as possible from the beginning to avoid having to compensate afterwards?

Click to expand...

There is White and there is White....

For use under natural lighting often optical brighteners are used. These actually add luminance to a white surface, as they absorb invisible UV light and instead emit visible (bluish) light.

Of course such makes no sense, gives no added luminance, under studio conditions, as there typically is no UV light.

Here any bluish colorisation just gives a perception effect, of a "whiter white".
If by filtration of any kind this hue is compensated for, that perception gets lost. And you could have saved yourself that bluish backdrop...

JEM8 said:

Thanks also for the reply. I will try to situate the subject at least 6' in front of the background, although it might be difficult due to my space for filming will be rather small and I intend to have the subject also sitting on the background (if possible making it appear as if the subject is sitting in an abstract space of whiteness).

Click to expand...

Actually the main reason for having some distance between subject and background is to avoid the subject's shadow. If you put your main light a bit high and to one side, the person's shadow will go down and to the other side. Then, provided that your shooting "angle of coverage" is fairly small, you will be able to completely avoid a subject shadow on the background.

A second reason is to be able to put a background light directly behind the subject. Fwiw this will make a brighter central spot behind the subject. I think you'll find that you cannot get an evenly lit white background without having at least a handful of background lights.

Actually there IS a simple way to get an evenly lit white background - that is to have the background immediately behind the subject, and to use a single light right at the camera position. But... now there is a hard shadow immediately around the subject. So... probably not the look you are after, but you might wanna try it just to see; maybe you'll like the effect. Who knows?

I'd suggest a ringlight around the lens if that is the way you want to go.

AgX said:

There is White and there is White....

For use under natural lighting often optical brighteners are used. These actually add luminance to a white surface, as they absorb invisible UV light and instead emit visible (bluish) light.

Of course such makes no sense, gives no added luminance, under studio conditions, as there typically is no UV light.

Here any bluish colorisation just gives a perception effect, of a "whiter white".
If by filtration of any kind this hue is compensated for, that perception gets lost. And you could have saved yourself that bluish backdrop...

Click to expand...

I will make sure to avoid background with optical brighteners. If I understand the manufacturer description correctly neither of the Super White or Arctic White from Colorama have any optical brighteners, so they shouldn't have that problem I suppose. Though I guess I'll go with Super White instead of Arctic White just to be sure to avoid any potential bluish hue.

Mr Bill said:

Actually the main reason for having some distance between subject and background is to avoid the subject's shadow. If you put your main light a bit high and to one side, the person's shadow will go down and to the other side. Then, provided that your shooting "angle of coverage" is fairly small, you will be able to completely avoid a subject shadow on the background.

A second reason is to be able to put a background light directly behind the subject. Fwiw this will make a brighter central spot behind the subject. I think you'll find that you cannot get an evenly lit white background without having at least a handful of background lights.

Actually there IS a simple way to get an evenly lit white background - that is to have the background immediately behind the subject, and to use a single light right at the camera position. But... now there is a hard shadow immediately around the subject. So... probably not the look you are after, but you might wanna try it just to see; maybe you'll like the effect. Who knows?

Click to expand...

Great advice to put the main light high and to the side to avoid a subject shadow on the background, as avoiding the shadow completely is the look I'm aiming for. Would this setup include also one fill light and also just one light shining directly at the background? (making this look possible with only three lights)
I'm having only three lights to work with (all of them GVM 1500d), but I'm also looking into having at least one reflector. Maybe it would be possible for me to this way use just one background light, having it shine in from one side at the white background and on the other side having a reflector bouncing back some of the light and thus spreading it out more evenly on the background.
I will also try out the look with the background immediately behind the subject and a single light at the camera position, maybe it will be an interesting look - or if not, I could maybe try to modify it a little with a reflector for softening the shadow around the subject.

Pieter12 said:

I'd suggest a ringlight around the lens if that is the way you want to go.

Click to expand...

I will have two GVM 1500d in front of the subject, but would having also a ringlight around the lens reduce shadows on the background?

Be aware that a ringlight (though most popular ar the moment) gives nasty eye-reflections (at least to mind mind).

JEM8 said:

I will have two GVM 1500d in front of the subject, but would having also a ringlight around the lens reduce shadows on the background?

Click to expand...

If everything is positioned correctly. You will still need to light the background if your want it to be bright white. A ring light gives very even light on the subject, pretty much shadow-free, except it will cast a hard shadow on the background if the subject is close to it (the background). It's a look that was popular for a while. And, as mentioned earlier, it does give a ring-shaped highlight to the eyes.

AgX said:

Be aware that a ringlight (though most popular ar the moment) gives nasty eye-reflections (at least to mind mind).

Click to expand...

Nasty eye-reflections sounds like something I'd want to avoid.

Pieter12 said:

If everything is positioned correctly. You will still need to light the background if your want it to be bright white. A ring light gives very even light on the subject, pretty much shadow-free, except it will cast a hard shadow on the background if the subject is close to it (the background). It's a look that was popular for a while. And, as mentioned earlier, it does give a ring-shaped highlight to the eyes.

Click to expand...

Even light on the subject sounds good, though too bad it is at the expense of having a ring-shaped highlight to the eyes and a hard shadow on the background if too close to it (which I might have to be since my studio will be rather small). Maybe if placing one of my 1500d-lights directly behind the ringlight, I could avoid the hard shadow on the background and minimize the eye-reflections? (In that setup I could use my remaining two 1500d-lights to shine directly on the white background to further remove the hard shadow)