Super 8mm, can it be developed at home?

[LifeOnFilm]

I'm asking in the color forum because I would prefer to shoot in color, but if I can only do black and white film at home that's fine. I just got my first super 8 camera and I want to make a short film, I'm going to be purchasing Kodak reversal stock (so that I don't have to pay a lab to make a work print, unless there is a way to make a work print from a negative at home) and will probably start off shooting something small like 50 ft.

Can it be done? I can't find any info online about doing it.

 

[guangong]

First, at present Kodak does not make a color reversal film in Super8;or 16mm. That is why we are breathlessly awaiting the release of Ektachrome. The slit still reversal films loaded into Super8 cassettes do not work in many cameras and can do damage in others. What is available is Reversable Tri-x.
Processing can be done DIY. The dirty way is to simply put the film in a bucket like spaghetti, but that produces a lot of scratches. The expensive way is to buy a rare Jobo Super8 tank. The best alternative is to get a Russian Lomo tank, but make sure the tank is for Super8 (50 ft) and not regular 8 (25ft). Some of the Russian sellers are deliberately misleading, so be careful.
Current b/w developing formulas published by Kodak for movie Tri x are meant for machine processing...the times are way to short, and besides, one of the chemicals is extremely hard to come by. Best to use the old standard...D-19.
Have fun!

 

[guangong]

P.S. While I use reel to reel processing tank for 16 mm, I have never had any success with Super8 reel to reel.
You can find instructions for using Lomo tank on YouTube.

 

[Truzi]

I will be doing it soon - I've already exposed some Tri-X reversal, and hope to get into the color films from Kodak and Ferrania when they come out. Search for home super 8 developing, and for the lomo upb-1 tanks.

It took a while, but I was finally able to purchase a Lomo UPB-1a from ebay. They can be used to develop up to 50 feet of Super 8, Double-8, 16mm, and 35mm. They are a bit pricey, though. There are other versions that should handle 50 feet of 8 or double-8/16mm only, and there are some other more obscure developing tanks out there.

Here is a video you may find interesting:


I don't like the bucket idea - some people just put the film in a big bucket of chemicals. Obviously you will get development problems and scratches that way.

Here are a couple more things I had found (actually the same, different URLs):
https://www.sites.google.com/site/o...ng/processing-tanks/upb-1-upb-1a-spiral-tanks
https://sites.google.com/site/proci...ng/s8-15-x-50-ft-upb-1-upb-1a-processing-tank

 

[LifeOnFilm]

P.S. While I use reel to reel processing tank for 16 mm, I have never had any success with Super8 reel to reel.
You can find instructions for using Lomo tank on YouTube.

Sorry, what do you mean reel to reel tank? I've a Patterson Tank that I use for my Canon 6 35mm and my 120mm Holga, but that's it.

 

[LifeOnFilm]

I will be doing it soon - I've already exposed some Tri-X reversal, and hope to get into the color films from Kodak and Ferrania when they come out. Search for home super 8 developing, and for the lomo upb-1 tanks.

It took a while, but I was finally able to purchase a Lomo UPB-1a from ebay. They can be used to develop up to 50 feet of Super 8, Double-8, 16mm, and 35mm. They are a bit pricey, though. There are other versions that should handle 50 feet of 8 or double-8/16mm only, and there are some other more obscure developing tanks out there.

Here is a video you may find interesting:


I don't like the bucket idea - some people just put the film in a big bucket of chemicals. Obviously you will get development problems and scratches that way.

Here are a couple more things I had found (actually the same, different URLs):
https://www.sites.google.com/site/o...ng/processing-tanks/upb-1-upb-1a-spiral-tanks
https://sites.google.com/site/proci...ng/s8-15-x-50-ft-upb-1-upb-1a-processing-tank

Omg thank you so much

 

[vdonovan]

I follow this guy's process, pretty much to the letter. (Make sure you turn on subtitles!)

I'm very happy with the results. It is a pain to source those Russkie tanks, but worth it in the end.

 

[Truzi]

vdonovon, that is the video I intend to model when I get around to it. It's very nice that it's subtitled. I viewed a lot of videos, but that is the one I found most useful.

LifeOnFilm, you will also need to dry the film. You could buy something or build it yourself. Here is just an example:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-RARE-...336139?hash=item285c6cf44b:g:RskAAOSwToda7HkL

It shouldn't be too difficult to fabricate something like this. There are similar, more obscure, units out there too. I found a U.S. military dryer that collapses and fits in a carrying case. I can't find a link to a video, but there is a way to wind film on a dryer like this - you don't want it too tight from what I can gather (refer to the video vdonovon posted).

You'll probably want to find an editing station so you can cut and splice scenes how you want. Those are relatively cheap on ebay, but I'll be using one my grandfather had.

 

[iandvaag]

what do you mean reel to reel tank?

Search for "Morse rewind tank". Other brands also manufactured similar products. Some people say these tanks are incredibly frustrating, others have had good success. I've never used one; I use the LOMO tank. FWIW, the rewind tanks allow you to process much longer lengths of film (which probably isn't a concern for you since you stated your interest is Super 8.)

unless there is a way to make a work print from a negative at home

This is something I would be interested in also. It's quite tricky, and there is not a lot of amateur equipment designed for this. Check out Uhler cine printer. It may be possible to use a camera as a contact printer as well, I've not really looked into it extensively. Someone by the name of Michael Carter regularly posts videos of tests he has done developing film (both positive and negative) and making prints. You can check out his youtube channel here. He posts regularly to the facebook group "Home Movie Film Lab".

For some reason that I've never understood, APUG (now Photrio) doesn't have a tonne of great threads about movie film (shooting, processing, projecting,etc). You may also want to explore the forums at 8mmforumm and filmshooting.com. Also, some of the subfora at cinematography.com deal with film.

But welcome to APUG! I for one am very glad to have more discussions about film making here! There are several highly experienced film makers who participate on this site. All the best on your journey. It can be a fair bit of work, but it's thoroughly rewarding to watch one's home-developed movies projected!

 

[Europan]

You can keep the Super-8 camera but I recommend to move to the Double-Eight film format. The films are 16 mm wide, you have compatibility with the 16 mm format in many ways. It might surprise you: there is Double-Eight equipment around that outperforms the younger Super-8. One aspect is repairability. An other is the openness with optics, many Double-Eight cameras allow to change lenses on the base of an internationally standardised mounting thread. Thirdly, you have spring-motor cameras that work anytime, no electricity needed. The Agfa Movex Reflex for example pulls through entire rolls on one wind. Many cameras allow to wind the spring during a take, thus running for as long as you wish. Some cameras accept an electric motor, even with crystal control for synch sound work. The little Bell & Howell Filmo 8s have first-class mechanics, the earlier models a quick spigot lens mount.

Want more? Nice film stocks in Double-Eight. Sturdy projectors. Tons of accessories. Compatibility of Regular-8 film with magnetic recording tape technics, reels for instance. Or the fact that 25 frames per second match the tape speed of 3¾ inches per second. Just saying

 

[guangong]

You can keep the Super-8 camera but I recommend to move to the Double-Eight film format. The films are 16 mm wide, you have compatibility with the 16 mm format in many ways. It might surprise you: there is Double-Eight equipment around that outperforms the younger Super-8. One aspect is repairability. An other is the openness with optics, many Double-Eight cameras allow to change lenses on the base of an internationally standardised mounting thread. Thirdly, you have spring-motor cameras that work anytime, no electricity needed. The Agfa Movex Reflex for example pulls through entire rolls on one wind. Many cameras allow to wind the spring during a take, thus running for as long as you wish. Some cameras accept an electric motor, even with crystal control for synch sound work. The little Bell & Howell Filmo 8s have first-class mechanics, the earlier models a quick spigot lens mount.

Want more? Nice film stocks in Double-Eight. Sturdy projectors. Tons of accessories. Compatibility of Regular-8 film with magnetic recording tape technics, reels for instance. Or the fact that 25 frames per second match the tape speed of 3¾ inches per second. Just saying

Where do you find this great variety of double eight film? If going that rout, better to shoot double Super 8 rather than regular 8. Same cameras only bigger film gate. Since OP is at initial experimental try-it-out stage he should use what he has and what is available first in order to see if shooting film is for him.
Shooting movies is quite different from shooting still or even video. Also, later there is, as with still photography, the opportunity for going hybrid. While I don’t use it, the whole logic of Kodak Vision movie films is to shoot color negative for video transfer.
It should be pointed out that slitting film designed for movie cameras is better for cameras than slitting still film. The Russians must had access to slit film since reusable Super8 cassettes often came with new Super8 cameras. Perhaps somebody on APUG can give more info about this.

 

[Europan]

In Double-Eight we have at least one true mixed-emulsions reversal stock with a colourless base, namely Fomapan R. It’s the only such film left on the market. Foma Bohemia sell it in DS-8, too. Your point about DS-8 is valid.

Dennis Toeppen offers Vision color negative films in Double-Eight. Kahl has Orwo negative and positive films. Wittner, also in Germany, has films. John Schwind in California has films.

 

[Agulliver]

As you've already been made aware, there is no colour reversal super 8 film left....until and unless Ferrania get their E6 film in production and the same with Kodak and the relaunch of Ektachrome. Personally I believe both will happen but it might not be for many months. Kodak hasn't made any colour reversal stock since 2012, so unless you are looking at ridiculously expensive online auctions you won't be purchasing any.

Processing super 8 film isn't that difficult but does require either a Lomo spiral tank or Morse rewind tank if you want decent results. I have the lomo tank and have done B&W reversal and E6 with professional results. Be aware the Lomo tank comes in two flavours, both can process reg 8, super 8 and 16mm but one can handle 33 feet and the other the full 50 feet. You'll need some way of keeping temperatures reasonably stable if you ever do colour processing, I used to float my Lomo tank and chemical bottles in my kitchen sink with a thermometer checking the water temperature. Some people use the cool boxes (AKA ice chests) that you might take on a camping trip.

B&W reversal isn't difficult nor is it very temperature dependent. Colour is a little more tricky, mostly because you really do need to keep the temperatures within 1C (or better yet 0.5C) of the manufacturer's instructions. If you do get around to doing colour negative film (all that is available in colour right now) I believe that Andec in berlin *might* still be able to make prints? But last time I needed that service in 2008 they were the last in the world offering it. I don't believe it's possible to make a work print at home but you can process the negative film using the Lomo or Morse tank.

 

[guangong]

The last time I checked several years ago the Wittner and West Coast reversal films were not cinema films but slitted still films. Will work in some Super8 cameras but not good for others. For color reversal I am waiting for Kodak or Ferrania.
By the way, unlike some comments made, the reels on neither of my Morris adjusts to take 8mm film. Once I did try to modify a reels without success.
Only the Lomo for 50ft should be used for Super8. The Lomo that accepts 30 ft I was made for regular 8, which is/can be processed in 25 ft strips and so Super8 spool would have to be cut in two. Using a Lomo 50 ft also requires cutting 100ft spool in two, which is why I use Morris tank for 16 mm.
There were several “automatic” loading reel-tank combination tanks made where spool was loaded and film cranked into reel but these were modified versions originally made for regular 8 and were not on the market very long. I have one for Super8 but prefer using a Lomo. The automatics don’t live up to expectations.
The good news. Even better than buying still cameras, high end movie cameras, such as those made by Zeiss, that once cost as much as a small car can now be bought for almost nothing. My favorite Super8 that I bought new in early 1970s is a Nizo because of its compact ergonomic styling. Don’t want to be battery dependent? then a Russ windup.