Suggestions required for a newbie to use a 5"x4" view camera with 6x9cm roll film

[Ed Bray]

Hi All,

I have been playing with the movements on my Fuji GX680Mk3 and have begun to reach their limitations when trying to use the limited movements to control the plane of focus and also the amount of correction the shift allows, to this end I believe I would like to try a 5x4 view camera that enables the use of a 6x9 & 6x12 roll film holder. I have looked at the smaller 6x9 view cameras but these seem to take just cut sheet film (not sure I am ready for that yet). I think I would like a monorail but am open to suggestions from those of you with the knowledge of the subject to guide me to the best path. Whilst I would like to use the camera/lenses in the field, this would only be on occasions as it would primarily be used at home.

So to my questions, I would appreciate both budget answers and ideal option answers if possible please:

What would be the best 5"x 4" view camera for the job (budget and ideal option) that will take a roll film holder?
What lenses would give me a good amount of coverage for the following focal lengths (again budget and ideal option would be appreciated) as they will be designed to cover 5"x4" I am assuming they will have sufficient circle of coverage to allow a full range of movements across the roll film formats:

50mm (or preferably slightly wider if available)
75mm
100mm
150mm
210mm

Thanking you all in anticipation of your answers and I might even be prepared to sacrifice my Hasselblad H1 kit to go down this interesting road.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Ed, view cameras have three types of backs and there are roll holders for each.

Graflok, also called international, backs accept roll holders made to fit them. Most also accept cut film holders. My little 2x3 Cambo has one of the exceptions, a 2x3 International back that has no provision for mounting a regular cut film holder, but AFAIK all 4x5 Graflok/international backs accept cut film holders. Horseman, Wista, Arca Swiss, even Graflex ... 6x9 roll holders are available, also a variety of 6x12s. There are some Linhof roll holders that fit international backs too.

Spring, also called Graphic, backs. All accept cut film holders and roll holders that slip in like cut film holders. Cambo/Calumet and Sinar roll holders, for example. The pricey Sinar Zoom will do 6x12 and I think there's a 6x12 Cambo too, but it isn't common; both can be used on an international back. I use Adapt-A-Roll 620s on my 2x3s, don't think that an AAR 620 to fit a 4x5 camera (they exist) is a good choice for you.

And then there are 4x5 cameras with proprietary backs that accept only their makers' cut film holders and roll holders. Plaubel, for example. AFAIK there are no 6x12 holders for any of them.

Re older lenses, visit http://www.largeformatphotography.info/ and read the FAQs. If you have questions, join the forum and ask there. APUG has much less LF traffic. www.graflex.org also has a huge lens list.

For modern lenses, visit www.schneideroptics.com and www.rodenstock-photo.com to learn about the latest most best.

There are many view cameras around, mainly used, at a variety of prices. Too many to give advice other than "use what I do." The one think to keep in mind is that given your fantasies you'll need one with quite a short minimum extension.

I wrote "fantasies" because I have a 35/4.5 that just covers 6x12. I use it on 2x3, don't often see subjects that need a lens that short. Perhaps I should work on improving my vision, but I think that really short lenses are hard to use effectively. Going 6x12 is one of my fantasies, and I have trouble imagining situations in which I could use the 35 well on 6x12. Understand, though, that when I do find a situation that wants the 35 I'm glad I have it.

 

[Ed Bray]

Hi Dan, thanks for your reply and your edit, 6x12 is not essential just something I thought I might like later on, 6x9 on the other hand is what I woud prefer to shoot with the greater movements of a view camera (I was thinking monorail but do not know enough about the various types). I know there are a number of lenses available around 50mm for 5"x4" and I wouldn't have thought the other sizes shouldn't be an issue. I understand that both Rodenstock and Schnieder make superwides of around 35mm but do not know what the coverage would be like apart from the fact that they both cost in excess of £1400 new.

I had already registered to ask the same question on the Large Format Forum but am still awaiting a mod to approve. I will do as you say and read the faqs. The big problem is 'what fits what' at least with smaller formats I buy a lens to fit, with large format you can have a lens which fits a numbered shutter? then you have to get the right lensboard with the correct extension, this is an absolute minefield for a beginner.

 

[Ian Grant]

Ed it's not really a minefield and all will become clear very quickly with a little reading. Lenses come in shutters generally and lens boards are easy to find/swap/adapt etc.

I do occasionally use a Wista 6x9 back on my Wista 45DX which has a spring back and it's a very nice format, my widest lens is a 65mm f8 Super Angulon which I mainly use for 5x4 work although it's great for 6x9 as wel. I guess you could go for a 47mm for 6x9.

Be aware many monorails aren't so good with shorter lenses below 90mm often needing recessed lens-board and bag bellows and the rail itself may get in the way (unless it's short).

There are some APUG members in Plymouth so it might be worth getting in touch with them to see something in action.

Ian

 

[Ed Bray]

Thanks Ian, appreciate your post. I was just looking at a Toyo C on ebay which has no bids and is finishing soon for £200, would that be any good?

 

[John Austin]

Do as you have been told and visit people who have cameras you can see before you spend your money

Plymouth, good memories of Plymouth, apart from being stuck in the rain near the Tamar Bridge hitching to Cornwall in the winter, about 1970 I think - Scored my first root in Plymouth a good while time before that

John

 

[Ed Bray]

Do as you have been told and visit people who have cameras you can see before you spend your money

Plymouth, good memories of Plymouth, apart from being stuck in the rain near the Tamar Bridge hitching to Cornwall in the winter, about 1970 I think - Scored my first root in Plymouth a good while time before that

John

OOPs! Looks like you posted a little too late, it seems I am now the owner of a Toyo C Monorail or will be when I collect it from Camborne.

I couldn't have helped you in 1970, I was only 11 going on 12 then. Times have certainly changed, I worked in London from Jan 76 until Oct 77 and as I was a Plymouth Argyle fan I used to hitch home every couple of weeks on a Friday and back up again on a Sunday evening, and if Argyle were playing oop Nort I would hitch up an back in the same day. I wouldn't be too happy with my kids hitch-hiking around the country these days.

Just got to change my initial post to reflect my new requirements.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Depends on your budget. But just keep in mind that not all roll film backs are precise, nor is the film
plane on all 4X5 cameras. With the smaller film size, these minor differences add up, and you need to focus more carefully to begin with. In other words, look for the best camera and back you can
afford. The problem with lenses will be at the shorter end, unless you have big money for something
current. Just depends on what you are doing and how much precision and enlargement potential
you want, and whether you are planning on using very fine high acutance films or something fast.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

If cost and weight are of little concern... here are just a couple of many possible kits (some compromises for overall price vs. real-world utility).

Horseman 6x12 RFH
38mm SA XL (won't cover 4x5)
58mm SA XL
90mm SA f/5.6
135mm Fujinon-W
210mm Apo Symmar
300mm Fujinon-C

OR...

Horseman 6x12 RFH
47mm SA XL
72mm SA XL
110mm SS XL
150mm SS XL
210mm Apo Symmar
300mm Fujinon-C

Caveat: IMHO, you'll need center filters for lenses wider than 90mm on 4x5 or 72mm on 6x9cm. Some will disagree.

 

[Ed Bray]

Thanks all for your suggestions, I currently have bought from the same seller a Toyo C Monorail Camera and a Schneider-Kreuznach Xenar 1:4.5 / 150mm lens on Synchro-Compur No.1 Shutter these have cost me £256 plus a couple of gallons of fuel to go and collect it.

I am looking at ordering:

6x9cm back
47mm
75mm
110mm
210mm

 

[John Austin]

Hmm, go slowly and buy and get used to one at a time - Firstly work out what you want to photograph, then select the lens to suit that field and add as needed

My observation on the first two wide angles you list is that they will take a bit of skilled camera management on your part to work well and you will need WA bellows - So perhaps try the very cheap option of a 90mm Angulon to practice with - When you are used to using that you will know what to go for in other wide angles

One good thing about buying good quality LF lenses is that they are generally easy to sell again when you decide on something else

I beg to differ with my learned and respected elder colleague from Texas regarding centre filters, I like the fact I don't have to burn in the corners so much, also my LREC from Texas has far too many lenses by his own admission, so buy selectively and with care

Over the last 40 years I have come to know my lenses and how to get the best from them, something I believe is more important for final print quality than MTF curves and other arcane mumbo jumbo - To see what fun can be had with "interesting" lenses visit Jim Galli's Toponah site - I will never go down that path, but he has an ardent following and very obviously enjoys his lenses - He also makes sensible images in the Bristlecone Forest

Regarding 210mm, I have a currently unused VGC 210mm Symmar S in Copal shutter with a small ding on the aperture scar for say Au$360 + postage - I am selling it as it does not sit well with my antiquated lens set from the 1950s/1960s, with a couple of Heliars from before that


John

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

G-O-M... Yeah, I know some folks disagree. I'm far from learned... many years out of practice. I prefer to retain all the detail possible then have the option of burning the corners if the subject matter requires it. It's far easier/better to burn "overexposed" corners than to dodge "underexposed" corners. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Ed Bray]

Hi all, again thank you all for your help.

The situation is currently thus:

I am collecting this morning a Toyo C Monorail with Schneider-Kreuznach Xenar 1:4.5 / 150mm lens on Synchro-Compur No.1 Shutter (total £256)
I have bought and will be delivered tomorrow the following:
Wista 6x9 Rollfilm back (I have been told this should fit but have it on a sale or return basis) (£119)
210mm Symmar in Compur shutter (£126)
90mm Super Angulon f8 in Compur shutter (£249)
2x Toyo No1 lens board (£20 each)
1x Toyo No2 lens board (£20)

I shall wait a bit until I get used to the lenses above before buying a wider angle (although I will need something if I am going to stick with 6x9), I hope to use the 210mm for portraits and the 90mm as a standard, the 150mm I just got because it was cheap and was from the same seller as the camera.

Thanks again for all the suggestions.