Suggestions for film development times

[smo2]

After reading a number of posts on this forum, I decided to shoot Tri-X and HP5+ at 250 instead of the rated 400. Now I need some help with developing times! I know that what I SHOULD do is do a test and develop several rolls, blah, blah blah. I do not have the time or the resources.

What I need is a good start time. I will be using XTOL and D-76. If I can find a good starting place that would be the best thing. Then I can adjust from there.

Also, I use the book "into Your Darkroom Step by Step" and follow the procedures in the book exactly (except for dev. times which I usually get off the massive dev chart). I fix for 10 minutes - is this too long (I am using kodak rapid fixer)? Is there any harm in fixing this long?

Last question. How much agitation should I use? I usually slam the bubbles out and then agitate continuously for the first 30 seconds. Then I agitate for 5 seconds every 30 seconds for the entire development time. I have a one reel take (120). For agitation I simply turn/invert the canister (plastic) in my hand for 5 seconds. Is this the best way - is there a better way - what results might I be missing with my techniques?

Thanks.

 

[MikeSeb]

Massive Development Chart times are just as good as any that APUG users could suggest, since neither is more likely than the other to reflect your "system" of exposure, development, temp, time, water pH, etc.

There is no substitute for testing if you want the best results. (BTW, did I mention that There is no substitute for testing if you want the best results?) That's one of the beauties of B&W film processing--it's easy to do, not as easy to do well, and rewards the careful and systematic worker. Slovenliness will be punished with frustration.

The agitation method you mention should be as good as any other--just pick one and stick with it. Try to keep as many variables unchanged as you can, and vary them one at a time as you figure out "your" times and methods. MDC should get you in the ballpark with usable results from the jump; it should take only a few rolls to zero in if you are careful.

You may find that downrating those films to lower EI's won't be necessary with Xtol, as it preserves film speed pretty well. You'll find out soon enough if this is true for you. Both films look great in Xtol at a variety of dilutions; Xtol / Mytol / PC-TEA is/are my default developer(s).

Good luck.

 

[smo2]

Thanks Mike

The reason for my unwillingness to test is it is a total pain in the A** for me to develop. I have a septic tank and do not want to send everything into my septic system so I collect it all and will bring it to the town hazordous waste collection day.

I seem to recall that people say to expose at 250 (for 400 rated film) and then develop at 80% of the reccomended time. That is what I have seen people say to get the "best" results from these films. Do I use 80% of the 400 time or the 250 time? Or do I just develop it as if I DID in fact shoot it at 400.

Thanks

 

[Steve Smith]

I seem to recall that people say to expose at 250 (for 400 rated film) and then develop at 80% of the reccomended time. That is what I have seen people say to get the "best" results from these films. Do I use 80% of the 400 time or the 250 time? Or do I just develop it as if I DID in fact shoot it at 400.

I use Ilford HP5+ at EI 200 and develop for 75% of the 400 time so exposing at EI 250 and developing for 80% of the 400 time sounds right to me.


Steve.

 

[fschifano]

Don't include large areas of open sky or overly bright backgrounds when metering and you won't need to worry about downrating the film.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Don't include large areas of open sky or overly bright backgrounds when metering and you won't need to worry about downrating the film.

Definitely. And the test of developing is whether it prints on grade 2-3. If not, you're underdeveloping it (needs hard paper) or overdeveloping it (needs soft paper).

 

[Rolleiflexible]

Don't include large areas of open sky or overly bright backgrounds when metering and you won't need to worry about downrating the film.

I disagree. Many people downrate because of traditional film emulsions'
nature to handle overexposures with grace while handling underexposures
poorly. Obviously metering style enters into this but even careful meterers
can reasonably choose to overexpose their film by comparison with the film's
box speed.

As for choosing a development time, for this reason, I would recommend
starting with the ordinary times offered for shooting the film at the box
speed. One roll will tell the story. If your shadows print as black blobs,
then you need to expose more. If you negatives look bulletproof, then
you need to dial down either the exposure or the processing time.

Sanders

 

[Neal]

Dear Smo2,

The Xtol data sheet has extremely detailed advice for Xtol/HP5+/SmallTank processing.

Neal Wydra

 

[Toffle]

If you negatives look bulletproof, then
you need to dial down either the exposure or the processing time.

Sanders

Speaking of signatures, (somebody was, anyway...) this sounds like a keeper.

Cheers,

 

[gainer]

The oldest and best advice I ever got was "Expose for the shadows, develop for the highlights." It means you must know the shadow speed of your film and the exposure range of your paper. Nowadays your film's shadow speed is most likely 4 times the box speed. There's a lot more to it than I can say here, but just remember that the box speed is what the film can do when developed in something like D-76 with a scene in which the significant shadow is 1/4 as bright as the average brightness.

Given that the shadows will show detail as desired, the highlight that can be accommodated without washout will be very much greater than can be printed on paper. That is why the Almighty prompted someone to invent different grades of paper and all the other tricks we need to fool the eye into thinking that what we can squeeze on paper is the way our eyes saw it in front of the camera. Any user of roll film knows that a bunch of scenes of different brightness ranges may have to be captured on a single roll, so we cannot develop each exposure to suit its own brightness range.

I've already given away too many secrets.

 

[JHannon]

I've already given away too many secrets.

Keep em coming!

 

[smo2]

Dear Smo2,

The Xtol data sheet has extremely detailed advice for Xtol/HP5+/SmallTank processing.

Neal Wydra

Are you talking about the massive dev chart???



Thanks for the advice and the secrets everyone - I do not have a spot meter, so I just try and keep the subjects in light that is as similar as possible or take a couple of readings in the darkest and brightest areas and go from there.

 

[fschifano]

Are you talking about the massive dev chart???

I think he means Kodak J109 publication. Find it here: http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/j109/j109.pdf.

 

[Neal]

Hi Smo2,

"Are you talking about the massive dev chart???"

No, the Kodak data sheet. http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/j109/j109.pdf

After downloading, go here and get any others you might be interested in. http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/databanks/filmDatabankList.jhtml?

While I have consulted the Massive Development Chart over the years, keep in mind that it is an essentially unedited collection of suggestions. The data sheets from the various manufacturers are based on standardized tests performed consistently and by experienced laboratory staff.

The good news is that it is hard to go wrong with the combination of HP5+ and Xtol.

Neal Wydra