Suggestions for a WWII period camera

adelorenzo · Mar 20, 2018

I'm heading out on the Canol trail again this summer. (For those who don't know, it was a boondoggle of a project to supply Alaska with Canadian oil from Norman Wells.) My plan this time around is to shoot on a camera from the time period the pipeline was being built so pre-1944 basically.

Right now I have a Kodak Medalist. I've put one roll through it which didn't go very well, although to be fair it was -40. Let's just say right now I'm not sure it's the right camera or that I can trust it. It also weighs a ton. I'm going to keep playing with it but I am also looking for suggestions on alternative cameras to check out.

Not necessarily military issue, could definitely something that maybe someone working on the project might have owned. Maybe a Brownie or a folder or...? I'm set up to shoot 620 if needed although a 120 camera would be nice too. Definitely want it to be medium format.

Svenedin · Mar 20, 2018

You might look for a Zeiss Ikon folder. The Super Ikontas have a coupled rangefinder. It would be pre-WW2 though because I don’t think they were made during WW2 (not for civilian use anyway). Although German the British army used them during WW2. The 6x4.5 is light and compact (fits easily in a jacket pocket).

Hatchetman · Mar 20, 2018

Kodak Signet 35 was used in the war. The Medalist is a great camera, but mine struggles if it below freezing. Needs to be completely overhauled by someone that knows what they are doing.

Vaughn · Mar 20, 2018

Personally, I'd do it with a Speed Graphic.

But since you mentioned 120 and pre-1944, I suggest a Ciro-flex.

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Ciro-flex

I just used one in Japan. Screen is not at all bright, but it is a simple beast with decent optics.

Gerald C Koch · Mar 20, 2018

An Argus C3. First produced in 1938 and so a true WWII camaera.

summicron1 · Mar 20, 2018

There were a LOT of really good cameras used by both sides during the war: Kodak Retina, Leica IIIC and earlier, Zeiss Contax II and III, Zeiss Super Ikonta A, B and C, and on and on.

A good Leica II would be cheap to acquire and, after a quick service by Youxin Ye, utterly dependable and highly pocketable. If you want medium format, the Rolleiflex Standard was very standard on both sides of the fighting in all theaters.

E. von Hoegh · Mar 20, 2018

Hatchetman said:
Kodak Signet 35 was used in the war. The Medalist is a great camera, but mine struggles if it below freezing. Needs to be completely overhauled by someone that knows what they are doing.

Although there was a military (olive drab paint & leatherette) version of the Signet it was postwar.
The Medalist will work if it is serviced.
Maybe a baby Speed Graphic was made then? Any camera this old will need servicing if it is expected to be reliable.

MattKing · Mar 20, 2018

FWIW....
Farley Mowat used a Medalist for the photographs he took to illustrate his Arctic writings
Once a year he would send it or take it into the camera service depot at the North Vancouver Kodak lab where my Dad worked. It would be cleaned, lubricated and adjusted for Arctic conditions.
There was a technician at that location who was particularly experienced in both Medalist and Retina cameras.
If he had the chance, my Dad would make a point of coming out to talk with Mr. Mowat when he picked up his Medalist.

pbromaghin · Mar 20, 2018

Lots of great suggestions, so far. Since you have the Iconic US Navy camera of the war, I vote for a pre-war German Zeiss Super Ikonta. They came in 6x4.5, 6x6 and 6x9, with the excellent Tessar lens, and fold up nicely in the pocket. The 6x9s are really pricey because of collector appeal, but I got a really nice, perfectly operating 6x4.5 for $120 a couple years ago.

adelorenzo · Mar 20, 2018

Thank you everyone for the great suggestions so far!

Svenedin said:
You might look for a Zeiss Ikon folder.

pbromaghin said:
Since you have the Iconic US Navy camera of the war, I vote for a pre-war German Zeiss Super Ikonta

Great cameras but I wonder if a soldier or civilian worker on a military project like this would use a German camera during the war? Somehow it doesn't feel right.

Hatchetman said:
Kodak Signet 35 was used in the war. The Medalist is a great camera, but mine struggles if it below freezing. Needs to be completely overhauled by someone that knows what they are doing.

E. von Hoegh said:
The Medalist will work if it is serviced. Maybe a baby Speed Graphic was made then? Any camera this old will need servicing if it is expected to be reliable.

The information I can find says that the Signet was 1950's.

My Medalist has been serviced but, to be fair, taking it out at -40 is not a good way to shoot a first roll. I did get a full roll of images but there are some issues. I need to keep shooting with it but so far I'm not feeling it.

Vaughn said:
Personally, I'd do it with a Speed Graphic. But since you mentioned 120 and pre-1944, I suggest a Ciro-flex.

I would love to do it with my Speed Graphic! Sadly we are moving light, fast and unsupported, so the weight of the kit is a huge issue as well as the time it takes to set up a shot.

Gerald C Koch said:
An Argus C3. First produced in 1938 and so a true WWII camaera.

Oooh... Those cameras are really cool. I'm definitely going to have to try one out. I wasn't planning on shooting 35mm but I am not opposed to it by any means.

summicron1 said:
A good Leica II would be cheap to acquire and, after a quick service by Youxin Ye, utterly dependable and highly pocketable.

I've always wanted to shoot a Leica. Will have to investigate this a bit further as well.

E. von Hoegh · Mar 20, 2018

adelorenzo said:
Thank you everyone for the great suggestions so far!

Great cameras but I wonder if a soldier or civilian worker on a military project like this would use a German camera during the war? Somehow it doesn't feel right.

The information I can find says that the Signet was 1950's.

My Medalist has been serviced but, to be fair, taking it out at -40 is not a good way to shoot a first roll. I did get a full roll of images but there are some issues. I need to keep shooting with it but so far I'm not feeling it.

I would love to do it with my Speed Graphic! Sadly we are moving light, fast and unsupported, so the weight of the kit is a huge issue as well as the time it takes to set up a shot.

Oooh... Those cameras are really cool. I'm definitely going to have to try one out. I wasn't planning on shooting 35mm but I am not opposed to it by any means.

I've always wanted to shoot a Leica. Will have to investigate this a bit further as well.

The Medalist, or any camera used in -40 temperatures, will need to be serviced with "arctic grade" oil.
The Argus has a good 50mm triplet, but the Kodak 35 RF has an excellent Tessar - type Ektar and an accurate rangefinder.

jtk · Mar 20, 2018

adelorenzo said:
Thank you everyone for the great suggestions so far!

Great cameras but I wonder if a soldier or civilian worker on a military project like this would use a German camera during the war? Somehow it doesn't feel right.

The information I can find says that the Signet was 1950's.

My Medalist has been serviced but, to be fair, taking it out at -40 is not a good way to shoot a first roll. I did get a full roll of images but there are some issues. I need to keep shooting with it but so far I'm not feeling it.

I would love to do it with my Speed Graphic! Sadly we are moving light, fast and unsupported, so the weight of the kit is a huge issue as well as the time it takes to set up a shot.

Oooh... Those cameras are really cool. I'm definitely going to have to try one out. I wasn't planning on shooting 35mm but I am not opposed to it by any means.

I've always wanted to shoot a Leica. Will have to investigate this a bit further as well.

General Ike with his Stereo Realist...

shutterfinger · Mar 20, 2018

E. von Hoegh said:
Maybe a baby Speed Graphic was made then? Any camera this old will need servicing if it is expected to be reliable.

Speed Graphic -1912 - 1946 multiformats with 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 and 4x5 made the full run time.
Miniature Speed Graphic 1939- January 1947 2 1/4 x 3 1/4.
Pacemaker Crown and Speed Graphic 1947-1973.
http://www.graflex.org/speed-graphic/graphic-models.html

Svenedin · Mar 20, 2018

adelorenzo said:
Thank you everyone for the great suggestions so far!
Great cameras but I wonder if a soldier or civilian worker on a military project like this would use a German camera during the war? Somehow it doesn't feel right.

Yes they did. The British Army photographers certainly used Zeiss Ikon cameras during the North African campaign during WW2. I have a book somewhere by one of the photographers who remarks on how robust these folders were despite the heat and the sandstorms.

I can't find the book right now but here's something relevant: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30005039 and

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30004945

I have several of these cameras and they are an absolute delight.

Patrick Robert James · Mar 20, 2018

A Rollei would be an obvious choice.

If you want a folder, the Voigtlander Bessa RF is an excellent camera, and gets you a 6x9 neg. Folders are great since they take up less space. The Welta Weltur is also a neat camera, combining the viewfinder and rangefinder into one which is very nice. I have a 645 version of that from before the war. Pretty small as well.

There are also the folding box type cameras like the Voigtlander Bergheil, and I'm pretty sure Kodak made one, but there were lots of them. You could put a 120 back on it. I have a really little one called a KW Patrent Etui. The 120 holder is bigger than the camera! It is impossible to believe that it folds up as small as it does.

Hope that helps.

mshchem · Mar 20, 2018

Screw history . Fuji GS645S

Arklatexian · Mar 20, 2018

Gerald C Koch said:
An Argus C3. First produced in 1938 and so a true WWII camaera.

The only pre-WW2 (maybe 1938) Argus C3, (I am almost certain it was not a C2) that I have seen was not synched and I don't remember if the shutter speeds had "B" so you could hold the shutter open while firing a flash bulb. Pre-WW2 Medalist would be the Medalist 1 as the Medalist 2 was post war. Which ever camera would probably not have a coated lens though I understand both Leica and Kodak were using some form of coating on some cameras at that time........Regards!

Svenedin · Mar 20, 2018

pbromaghin said:
Lots of great suggestions, so far. Since you have the Iconic US Navy camera of the war, I vote for a pre-war German Zeiss Super Ikonta. They came in 6x4.5, 6x6 and 6x9, with the excellent Tessar lens, and fold up nicely in the pocket. The 6x9s are really pricey because of collector appeal, but I got a really nice, perfectly operating 6x4.5 for $120 a couple years ago.

Yes I remember you getting that camera!

adelorenzo · Mar 20, 2018

mshchem said:
Screw history . Fuji GS645S

Been there, done that, although it was a Fuji GS645W. Absolutely the best cameras I've ever used for wilderness trips. Probably one of the best cameras I've ever used period. Sadly unreliable, which is why I had to cut ties with them. I purchased three of them over the course of a couple of years, repaired two of them, but still couldn't keep one working properly.

Vaughn · Mar 20, 2018

My first thought was an old Rolleiflex, but nixed it for the same reason you gave! Thus my suggestion of the ciro flex (but it might be hard finding the pre-war model..mine are post-war). I have done a lot of backpacking with a 4x5, but usually solo trips and I generally do not move fast! Have a great adventure!

Paul Howell · Mar 20, 2018

Although late in the war and it takes 70mm film, Combat Graphic. Speed as already mentioned, the Army and Navy ordered so many that the contract with Graphic required the surplus be destroyed so as not to flood the post war market.

Paul Howell · Mar 20, 2018

oldtimermetoo said:
The only pre-WW2 (maybe 1938) Argus C3, (I am almost certain it was not a C2) that I have seen was not synched and I don't remember if the shutter speeds had "B" so you could hold the shutter open while firing a flash bulb. Pre-WW2 Medalist would be the Medalist 1 as the Medalist 2 was post war. Which ever camera would probably not have a coated lens though I understand both Leica and Kodak were using some form of coating on some cameras at that time........Regards!

The C2 and C3 overlapped production. From Wiki

Film format 35mm
Film size 36mm × 24mm
Film advance Manual
Film rewind Manual
Focusing
Focus Coupled rangefinder
General
Made in USA
Released October 1939
The Argus C3 was a low-priced rangefinder camera mass-produced from 1939 to 1966 by Argus in Ann Arbor, Michigan, United States. The camera sold about 2 million units, making it one of the most popular cameras in history. Due to its shape, size, and weight, it is commonly referred to as "The Brick" by photographers (in Japan its nickname translates as "The Lunchbox"). The most famous 20th-century photographer who used it was Tony Vaccaro, who employed this model during World War II.

Contents
[1 History

2 Specifications

3 Models

4 Notable users

5 In popular culture

6 References

7 External links

History[edit]
The C3 was introduced in October 1939 as an improved version of the C (1938–9) and C2 (1938–42). All three models shared the same "brick" design, attributed to Gustave Fassin, but the C3 was by far the most successful. The original Argus C was equipped with an uncoupled rangefinder which required the user to manually rotate the lens barrel to match the rangefinder reading, while the C2 coupled the rangefinder to the lens to allow one-step focusing. The C3 added built-in flash synchronization but was otherwise identical to the C2. It originally retailed for $35, equivalent to $616 in current dollars.[1]

adelorenzo · Mar 20, 2018

There are a number of great ideas on this thread that I am now researching but I have to say right now the Argus C2/C3 is really interesting to me. I could definitely see that as an everyman camera that an adventurous person from the USA would bring to work on the Canol project. I hadn't planned to use 35mm film but plans may change. I'll definitely try one out and see what I think.

Canol pipeline -- this is no picnic [Public domain], by http://www.gac.ca/PopularGeoscience/factsheets/CanolPipeline_e.pdf, from Wikimedia Commons

AgX · Mar 20, 2018

Paul Howell said:
Although late in the war and it takes 70mm film, Combat Graphic.

You mean 70mm Combat Graflex .

That camera has hardly been discussed here as user-camera. It would be fine to learn more about it.
Of course as disadvantage it takes 70mm film which is going to be scarce.

removed account4 · Mar 20, 2018

use a box camera like an agfa sure shot. it has a yellow filter T/I + several apertures/
it takes 1/2 frame as well as full frame and has a guillotine shutter so there i s no need
to deal with sticky or gooey mechanical shutters. plus its a box camera so if something drastic happens
and the camera gets damaged or has a problem, it didn't cost 200+dollars.
and if you can use a 35mm camera look for the american camera that made 35mm photography explode
( the argus a + af, b &C ) brilliant bakelite cameras, easy to find fun to use and simple shutter like its big box cousin.
http://arguscg.org/reference/a.shtml

Suggestions for a WWII period camera

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