Suggest for me a developer ...

Jeff Bannow · Oct 7, 2008

Okay, the more I read the more confused I get! Here's my current process: D-76, rinse, Stop bath, rinse, Ilford rapid fixer, rinse, Hypo clear, rinse, wash for 10 min., Photo-flo.

I would like to simplify this, so I was thinking of changing to: Developer, rinse, TF-4 fixer, rinse, wash for 10 min., Photo-flo.

I would like to replace the D-76 with something with more shelf life, but without increasing the grain too much. I shoot both 120 and 4x5 in daylight tanks, and will hopefully be processing 5x12 sheets in trays soon. I primarily shoot FP-4 and Acros 100 right now, but would like to be versatile in my film choices.

Does such a developer exist? Would it play nice with the TF-4 and lack of stop bath?

mikebarger · Oct 7, 2008

HC-110 should fit your requirements

Loooong shelf life, good grain. I do 4x5 and 120 in daylight tanks and it has worked well.

I also use 510pyro for both of these film sizes (more so than the HC110 lately), but didn't know if you wanted to mix your own.

Good luck, I know you'll get a lot of different suggestions.

Mike

R W Penn · Oct 7, 2008

Clayton F76+ liquid mix 1-9 or1-14 from Freestyle does all films. I get box speed.

Trevor Crone · Oct 7, 2008

Developers like Rodinal, HC110 and PMK pyro have a long 'shelf life' in concentrated form.

srs5694 · Oct 7, 2008

FWIW, the rinse before and after your stop bath is unnecessary, at least in my experience, and I also don't know why you're distinguishing between the final wash and the rinse just before that in both your procedures. You can also use a water rinse instead of an acid stop bath even with traditional acid fixers, although fixer life might suffer a bit. Thus, you can simplify a great deal without changing your current chemicals. I'm not trying to discourage you from experimenting, though -- I just want to point out that simplification is possible even without changing products.

To your main question, HC-110 (or the similar Ilford Ilfotec HC) will probably be the most common suggestion for your needs. Members of the Church of Rodinal will no doubt suggest it, and in fact for the (relatively) large formats and low film speeds you're using, the impact on grain probably wouldn't be objectionable. If you're willing to mix your own developer, PC-TEA and PC-Glycol are both good choices. In fact, they're simple enough (just three ingredients for PC-TEA) that they're not much harder to make than most commercial powdered developers. You will need a fairly precise scale, though. My first batch of PC-Glycol lasted a couple of years before I finished it.

fschifano · Oct 7, 2008

D-76 is my favorite film developer. If you store it correctly, in completely full bottles, D-76 will last at least 6 months. I mix it up 4L at a time and use it up long before the expiration date. Simply store the stock solution in small bottles so that only one bottle is partially full at any given time. HC-110 is good too, but it is not my first choice. Since you are using medium and large format films, grain will not be a problem.

jeroldharter · Oct 7, 2008

I like TMAX RS developer. Seems to have a good shelf life (I would say 6 months is fine) and is easy to mix from the concentrate without being too syrupy like HC-110. At present, I use it diluted either 1:9 or 1:4 with TMax 100 film. Because it is a liquid concentrate it requires no mixing (except for dumping the small packet of solution B into the larger bottle before first use) and stores in its original bottle. Doesn't get much simpler.

I would stick with the acid stop bath, rinse, rapid fix sequence. It works fine and is cheaper than using TF-4.

srs5694 · Oct 7, 2008

If cheap (or at least inexpensive) is what you want, consider Kodak Flexicolor (C-41) fixer. It works fine with B&W products and is less expensive than most B&W fixers. It's close to neutral in pH, but I don't recall the exact value offhand.

mjs · Oct 7, 2008

Since most film/developer combinations give somewhat different results, remember that changing your developer will change other factors too, including things such as film speed, tonality, grain, etc. The "look" of your negatives could change, maybe a little, maybe a lot. What developers have you tried before, and why are you using D76 now?

What you're proposing is an opportunity for experimentation, not just a quick change. That said, if you're going to change why not make a significiant change? Have you tried pyro developers? Two-bath developers?

My solution for D76's freshness issue is to mix a gallon at a time, then decant it into quart bottles filled to the brim. Unopened bottles last a very long time -- months, at least -- and that's for Kodak TMax film, which insists on fresh D76 or everything gets screwed up.

Royal Oak is where my stepfather was born. Isn't there a gallery or something there? I know there was a reason I wanted to drive up there several years ago, but never made the trip...

Keith Tapscott. · Oct 7, 2008

D-76 and ID-11 are good choices if you don`t mind dissolving powders to make a stock solution. They are also considered the world industry standard B&W film developers by which other B&W film developers are compared.

Jeff Bannow · Oct 7, 2008

Lots of suggestions - thanks guys and keep em coming.

My current process is a copy of what the lab at my school did. It works fine, but doesn't match the volume of developing I do. D-76 has worked well for me so far, but since I really need to do some film testing to nail down development, I figured why not look at a developer that doesn't require me to watch an expiration date?

I don't have an issue mixing my own chemistry - sounds like fun actually. I've been getting into some alt. process work, so I have the equipment to do so if needed.

Andrew Moxom · Oct 7, 2008

Jeff, sounds like you need to try Pyrocat HD in Glycol. Shelf life of solution A and B in their own containers is years! You can stop development with water, and fix in TF-4 or Ilford Hypam. A very consistent and bullet proof system.

Uhner · Oct 7, 2008

Become a member of the Church of Rodinal. An added bonus is that we have a secret handshake.

Trevor Crone · Oct 7, 2008

Uhner said:
Become a member of the Church of Rodinal. An added bonus is that we have a secret handshake.

God gave this 'Formula of Rodinal' to Moses when he received the 10 commandments.

Thomas Bertilsson · Oct 7, 2008

Hey Jeff, been a while since June. How are ya?

I've been using a water stop bath for a long time and it works well. I use Ilford Hypam non-hardening fixer. It's cheap in 5 liter bottles.

With the films you use, FP4 and Acros, especially in 6x7 and 4x5, grain shouldn't be an issue anyway. Rodinal is the developer that keeps forever, and you get really crisp negs with both FP4 and Acros. Sharp as a tack.

I have heard of decade old bottles of Rodinal with contents that still work. I currently use it at a rate of 2.5ml per roll of 120 (or about four 4x5 sheets worth), which makes it extremely economical. I get 200 rolls developed for $15 worth of developer. The water is much more costly.
Other developers that I know of that keep well are HC-110 and PMK.

Good luck.

- Thomas

jbannow said:
Okay, the more I read the more confused I get! Here's my current process: D-76, rinse, Stop bath, rinse, Ilford rapid fixer, rinse, Hypo clear, rinse, wash for 10 min., Photo-flo.

I would like to simplify this, so I was thinking of changing to: Developer, rinse, TF-4 fixer, rinse, wash for 10 min., Photo-flo.

I would like to replace the D-76 with something with more shelf life, but without increasing the grain too much. I shoot both 120 and 4x5 in daylight tanks, and will hopefully be processing 5x12 sheets in trays soon. I primarily shoot FP-4 and Acros 100 right now, but would like to be versatile in my film choices.

Does such a developer exist? Would it play nice with the TF-4 and lack of stop bath?

CBG · Oct 7, 2008

If your goal is to keep things simplest and not to have to worry out the expirations, HC-110 and Rodinal are easy and available. Pyrocat and the like you will generally need to mix from the formulas and bulk chems, but are much praised by their users.

You can go much simpler on your film processing: Develop, rinse OR stop, fix, wash, final dilute Photo-flo bath. That's it.

Do use wash aid for paper prints, but not essential for film.

C

jim appleyard · Oct 7, 2008

If you want something that lasts forever, go with what's already suggested; one of the liquid devs. However, with any new dev, you will still need to nail down your EI's, dev times, temp and agitation routine.

You can stay with D-76. It will last 6 mos., and it's easy to find times for all films in it and it's cheap.

pentaxuser · Oct 7, 2008

From reading other threads it would appear that DDX is rather expensive in the U.S. but it is: 1. liquid 2. delivers full box speed 3. delivers remarkably fine grain 4. is applicable to a large range of films including the 3200s 5. Decanted into a silver bag in which wine is kept in a box, I have had 12 months out of a litre and at 1+4 will cover 20 films which reading between the lines of your thread sounds less than the number of films you get through in 12 months so unlikely to be a worry in terms of shelf live.

pentaxuser

TheFlyingCamera · Oct 7, 2008

I'll put in another vote for Pyrocat HD. The stuff lasts FOREVER in the bottle, and you can buy it pre-mixed from Bostick & Sullivan. Part B comes already in solution, and Part A ships dry, but pre-mixed. Just add water and you're off to the races. I do mine at 1:1:100, and usually I'm shooting FP4+ or Fomapan 200 (aka Arista.EDU Ultra). Grain is nonexistent at 4x5 and up, and you'll love what the pyro stain does for contrast control.

jp80874 · Oct 7, 2008

jbannow said:
.......I shoot both 120 and 4x5 in daylight tanks........ QUOTE]

Jeff,

I hope you will bring some images to OH. Do you make a pin hole in the daylight tanks or is there a certain lens board that they take? I remember you were having trouble with lens boards recently for the new 4x5. Is this a spin off of that complexity?

While you are here I will be happy to show you results from Rollo Pyro. You mix the two parts as needed. I buy two kits of it from Bostick & Sullivan a year. I think they say the kit makes 33 ltr. of developer. Water is the stop bath. I use Ilford fixer at 4 parts water to one part their stuff. Then ten changes of wash water. This does require a Jobo.

Looking forward to your visit. Savannah wants to be sure Eva is coming. Eva is the best apple & stick thrower Savannah (yellow labrador) knows.

John Powers

michaelbsc · Oct 8, 2008

Uhner said:
Become a member of the Church of Rodinal. An added bonus is that we have a secret handshake.

Trevor Crone said:
God gave this 'Formula of Rodinal' to Moses when he received the 10 commandments.

SSSHHH!!!!!!!!!

How is it going to remain a secret if you keep telling everybody?!

srs5694 · Oct 8, 2008

Trevor Crone said:
God gave this 'Formula of Rodinal' to Moses when he received the 10 commandments.

Scary how like real religion this is! I've got a total of six "Rodinal" formulas in my notes, if one counts (there was a url link here which no longer exists) Then there are the differing commercial varieties -- "old" Agfa Rodinal, "new" Agfa Rodinal, Calbe R09, Fomadon R09, etc. At least I have yet to hear of photographers killing each other over different interpretations of their Rodinal formulas.

michaelbsc · Oct 8, 2008

srs5694 said:
At least I have yet to hear of photographers killing each other over different interpretations of their Rodinal formulas.

Apparently that's been kept quite very effectively.

Ian Grant · Oct 8, 2008

As a devotee of Rodinal for about 20 years for all formats I switched to Pyrocat HD 3 or 4 years ago and there's no going back. Pyrocat keeps for well over a year stored in the right type of bottle (no glycol). I'm currently using stock thats over 18 months old with no sign of ageing.

Ian

Venchka · Oct 8, 2008

Still working!

Trevor Crone said:
God gave this 'Formula of Rodinal' to Moses when he received the 10 commandments.

The first batch of Rodinal mixed by Moses is still working.

But seriously...

I'm a recent convert to Xtol 1:3 after using D-76 1:1 and Rodinal since forever. I keep my Xtol in a "Wine in a Box" container in my fridge. No worries after about 3 months. My latest efforts with Xtol were to mix it 1:3 and add Rodinal at 1:100. One roll of Efke 25 in this cocktail was very encouraging. I think that with a bit of fine tuning, I will stay with Xtol+Rodinal.

YMMV

Suggest for me a developer ...

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