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Suggest a 400 film

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The sheep is cropped to square 35mm 'old' TMax (TMY, not TMY-2) and pushed to 1600, the portrait of Andrew is Tri-X 400 120, and the woman is TMax 400 TMY-2 in 120. All developed in replenished Xtol and printed on Ilford paper.

The whole 'TMax is flat' thing I could never understand. It is exactly what you make it.
 

StoneNYC

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Well I guess if I'm not the only one then I'm not entirely wrong, but all those images are flat.

I'll try shooting 400 as 320 maybe that will help.


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
 

StoneNYC

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Flat? Please explain.

I was using your words, you said "I never understood the whole "Tmax is flat" thing..."

The highlights just don't POP for me, it's very low contrast, which I dislike.

Look at my B&W images in my gallery...


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Newt_on_Swings

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The whole 'TMax is flat' thing I could never understand. It is exactly what you make it.

This! I totally agree! +1

Also the picture of the woman is great, good detail and smooth tones and a very natural composition. as well as some nice lighting from the window.
 
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I was using your words, you said "I never understood the whole "Tmax is flat" thing..."

The highlights just don't POP for me, it's very low contrast, which I dislike.

Look at my B&W images in my gallery...

But that is a consequence my taste in final print quality and how I treat the film, not the film itself. I understand that different photographers have different tastes, and I wasn't posting my images for any reason other than to show that it's incredibly hard to tell a difference between something like Tri-X or TMax 400 unless you know what it is first.

The type of dark shadows and intense highlights you seem to prefer is equally possible with TMax as with Tri-X. You just have to change how you process TMax in order to emulate the tone curve of Tri-X. TMax has a straight line, and Tri-X has a shoulder. If you agitate less when you process TMax, say every three minutes or so, you will bend its straight line to resemble Tri-X. Tri-X has a bit longer toe too, while TMax has a more abrupt toe, so you can either expose TMax less, say EI 800 or 1,000, and push some of the shadow values onto the toe of the curve, and use something like Xtol to 'rescue' them again, but with a hair less definition than box speed. Or you can give Tri-X more exposure to keep its shadows off the toe, to look more like TMax does at box speed. There are so many additional variables that contribute to what a negative looks like at the end of the day, other than the film itself.

For what it's worth, anyway...
 
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Harry Lime

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Aren't both Tmax and Tri-X made in a relatively new factory that Kodak only put up a few years ago?
 

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Aren't both Tmax and Tri-X made in a relatively new factory that Kodak only put up a few years ago?

harry

just more gloom and doom chatter. i have a feeling tri x will be made for a long time
probably longer than fuji will continue making film ... but what do i know,
 

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Flat? Please explain.

thomas

flat is being confused here for heavy on the mid tones.
there is a school of photographic thought that believes
there needs to be excessive black and white values
otherwise a photograph is "flat"

nice work btw .. but i like a lot of mid tones
 

Harry Lime

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This! I totally agree! +1

Also the picture of the woman is great, good detail and smooth tones and a very natural composition. as well as some nice lighting from the window.

Same here. If anything I initially had some difficulty knocking down the contrast on TMY-2 400. I believe this may have something to do with the spectral response of the film. I ended up souping it in Barry Thorton's 2-bath. It's a brilliant film. I prefer the aesthetic of Tri-X, but in sheer technical terms TMY-2 400 may be the best B/W film Kodak ever made.

I like HP5+, mainly because it is lower contrast than Tri-X and does some beautiful delicate things with tonality and a single coated lens.
 

MattKing

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TMY2 is a wonderful film - very flexible and wonderfully fine grained.

If you aren't getting what you want from it, you aren't exploiting its capabilities properly.

I expect Kodak black and white film will remain available longer than Fuji will.
 

Gerald C Koch

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I don't think anyone is able to predict the future of Kodak films. The demand for film rather than digital is large in some countries. Not everyone in the world can afford to discard their film cameras and buy digital ones. So film lives on at least for the near future.

When Kodak renamed all their films a few years ago they were reformulated and manufactured in a new modern coating facility so their machines are not old. At that time the packaging was changed and the name Tri-X 400 became 400TX. All the films from this facility have the speed given first to show the change. The new 400TX is very different from the older Tri-X 400. So in reality your father's old Tri-X no longer exists. The new film is finer grained than even the last version of Tri-X.
 
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StoneNYC

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Wouldn't waiting 3 minutes between agitations introduce bromide drag?

As much as this is interesting, I have a system, I like my system for development, I don't want to change it for just one film, I like the consistent results I get from all the other films I use. I doubt I could get the results I want from Tmax, but I have 3 rolls left and so I'll try it in Rodinal and HC-110 and see how that turns out. I can see it being great for Product photography. But not for most of what I do. I only bought it because it was cheaper than delta400 at B&H.

Thanks for the advice. I'm always open to learning its just sometimes I know myself and prefer simplicity over struggle.

Aren't both Tmax and Tri-X made in a relatively new factory that Kodak only put up a few years ago?

If that's true I wasn't aware. Sorry.

harry

just more gloom and doom chatter. i have a feeling tri x will be made for a long time
probably longer than fuji will continue making film ... but what do i know,


Yes heavy mid tones is what I mean.


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
 

StoneNYC

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I just shot some old Tri-X Pan from the 70's it's really nice actually. Too bad... Lol


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
 

wblynch

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I don't think anyone is able to predict the future of Kodak films...

Perhaps. But I am willing to predict that when the end of Kodak film does arrive it will be sudden and furious, with no time to react.

I think of Kodak as a terminally ill friend whose end is quite near. We just don't know the date and time. We must enjoy them while they are still here.
 

Keith Tapscott.

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All of the ISO 400 films from Ilford, Kodak and Fuji are high quality. Sorry, I don't use Rodinal much.
HP5 Plus is the film I normally use.
 

Helinophoto

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How come a thread where the OP specifically asked for a non-Kodak film end up having nothing but Kodak talk??

If you are shooting 35mm only you have several options, where I find Fuji neopan to suit me the best.
If you want to shoot 35mm and 120, you best option is Ilford, then Rollei, then Foma (IMO)

Please take you Kodak discussions in a separate thread.
 

StoneNYC

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Agreed




~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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steelneck

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Thank you all for your replies. When i read your answers it looks like Hp5+ would be my best bet, i have never tried that film, or any Ilford for that matter. I have tried Kentmere, but that was some years ago and back then i used Xtol, i did not really like like that film. But on the other hand it can behave really different in Rodinal, but yet again that film does not come in rolls. Though i normally do not shoot MF, but who knows.. i may start.

Very few of you did mention the Rollei 400 films, i guess it is because it is a small brand and also due to my precondition of using Rodinal. I guess there are not many here on apug that can say anything about that combination.

Why are you prejudiced against Kodak?

It is made in the USA, the land who bullies the whole western world and most of the rest too. Don't ask, i do not want to start a political debate.
 

nicholai

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Well... I do have five rolls of Rollei 400 waiting to be developed in Rodinal, i'll be back.
 
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Wouldn't waiting 3 minutes between agitations introduce bromide drag?

As much as this is interesting, I have a system...

Thanks for the advice. I'm always open to learning its just sometimes I know myself and prefer simplicity over struggle.

No. Or else I wouldn't be doing it.

I wasn't trying to convince you to change. I'm glad you have something that works for you.

Cool. To learn how to shape a film to suit your need is a little bit of work up-front, but helps a lot once you know it, and actually makes things simpler in that you can do anything you want with just one film.


And, to Helinophoto - I thought it was important to contribute a counter balance to a statement that I found to be misleading, hoping that the OP wasn't avoiding Kodak films due to some technical reason that was avoidable.
 

StoneNYC

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+1

Looks like the OP is going ilford HP5+ so let's see what he thinks after his test


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Gerald C Koch

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It is made in the USA, the land who bullies the whole western world and most of the rest too. Don't ask, i do not want to start a political debate.

First let me say that the following is NOT a political statement. But I challange the logical fallacy that Kodak is in some way responsible for the problems of the world and boycotting them will solve the west's problems. To be very polite your argument is simplistic in the extreme.

If someone has a problem with the British government should they stop buying Ilford film? You are equating an economic entity with a political one. Like comparing apples and oranges.
 
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