Substitute for Afga Multicontrast Classic - Glossy ???

Gary Grenell · Jun 10, 2006

Alas, my stash of Agfa MCC 11x14 Glossy is almost gone. However, the portfolio I am currently printing is not complete. Which current paper will give me the closest similar look to what I am accustomed to? I develop in Dektol standard mix. I customarily mix my Kodak Selenium by adding 4 oz concentrate to 50 oz. water (or hypo clear). (A 1/12 ratio). I tone for four or five minutes.

This gives me a slight increased density in blacks, a very subtle shift to eggplant, but never a rust or brownish red. I do not let it produce an apparent split-tone effect either.

Thanks in advance.

Black Dog · Jun 10, 2006

Try Forte Museum or Polywarmtone?

Muihlinn · Jun 10, 2006

Among others, Maco multibrom f looks close but it gives less contrast for the same filtration.

Ian Grant · Jun 10, 2006

Can certainly endorse the Forte Polywarmtone, (also sold as Adox, & Classic Arts, as well as Berger).

It is a great alternative to Record Rapid, or Multicontrast Classic, if anything it is actually a slightly better paper with a longer tonal range, also a far better paper base. It is far more sensitive to Selenium toning and requires far less time.

Ian

skahde · Jun 10, 2006

Ian Grant said:
It is a great alternative to Record Rapid, or Multicontrast Classic, if anything it is actually a slightly better paper with a longer tonal range, also a far better paper base. It is far more sensitive to Selenium toning and requires far less time.

I beg to disagree with respect to the base. Though it may be brighter and thicker it starts to swell in a nonuniform fashion and developes wrinkles after beeing wet for several hours. It is impossible to dry flat afterwards. MCC has a much more robust base with no such problems. Same is true for Ilford Galerie FB and MGIV btw. which did not show any problems in my hands after beeing wet for comparable times.

Furthermore, MCC is (or was) more than 2 stops faster which can be a lot if you print large and have don't have an efficient light source in your enlarger. MCC was the jack of all bases. Tones well, fast, slightly cold to slightly warm depending on developer, robust, consistent between batches. That's certainly not a description of Forte PW which misses three of the five points mentioned.

I nevertheless like PW and alsways have a box around but as a substitute for MCC? No.

best

Stefan

RalphLambrecht · Jun 10, 2006

Gary

Find another paper for future use, but don't switch in the middle of portfolio printing. It won't work if you're picky (and if you print portfolios, I assume you are). Find some paper on eBay or the like. I've seen this paper advertised in several places in Germany. Search the web. After that, move on to another paper.

BTW

There is a strong rumor here in Leverkusen that the old Agfa plant in Southern France might pick up the production of Afga FB paper again. Just a rumor but one that doesn't want to die.

Maine-iac · Jun 11, 2006

Gary Grenell said:
Which current paper will give me the closest similar look to what I am accustomed to?

Good luck! I'm rapidly going through my stash of MCC, and I haven't found anything yet, and I've tried nearly all of the available papers out there. Agfa's unique look is due to the slightly warm chlorobromide emulsion combined with a bright white base. Other warmtone papers (Forte, Kentmere, Ilford) have the lovely warm emulsion, but combine it with a cream-colored base which doesn't give the same effect. Cooler-toned emulsions (Bergger, etc.) have the brighter white base, but not the warmer, detailed-shadow emulsions of warmtones.

I hope Ralph's rumor turns out to be correct.

There is a strong rumor here in Leverkusen that the old Agfa plant in Southern France might pick up the production of Afga FB paper again. Just a rumor but one that doesn't want to die.

Larry

Thomas Bertilsson · Jun 11, 2006

I used to print a lot on Agfa MCC paper, and it was not until Peter Schrager introduced me to Adox Fineprint VC that I stopped moaning... Not as warm in the tone, but extremely nice tonal rendition. Tonally very similar to the Agfa, actually. Does not tone as well, however, but you can just leave it in the toner for longer.

- Thom

skahde · Jun 12, 2006

huggyviking said:
I used to print a lot on Agfa MCC paper, and it was not until Peter Schrager introduced me to Adox Fineprint VC that I stopped moaning...

Heard that before, thanks for the confirmation. Let us hope the stuff behaves consistent between batches. How is the sensitivity compared to MCC?

Stefan

Marco Gilardetti · Jun 12, 2006

Ian Grant said:
Can certainly endorse the Forte Polywarmtone, (also sold as Adox, & Classic Arts, as well as Berger).

:confused:

It may be me, but Forte Polywarmtone Plus turns into a vivid red when toned into Selenium. If I got it right, that's exactly what Gary would like to avoid.

Gary, what about Ilford Multigrade IV Fiber, glossy finish? I've never toned THAT specific paper with Selenium, but the resin coated Ilford papers react to Selenium toning exactly as you described. I guess that the Fiber type should react in the same way.

Lachlan Young · Jun 12, 2006

skahde said:
Heard that before, thanks for the confirmation. Let us hope the stuff behaves consistent between batches. How is the sensitivity compared to MCC?

Stefan

Very, very slow! 30s+ for big prints at f5.6 but it has a beautiful tone and I hear it is truly breathtaking in Amidol - something I will try when I can afford 25g of Amidol! I believe it is extremely close to Defender Varigram in terms of its formulation.

Hope this helps,

Lachlan

Maine-iac · Jun 13, 2006

Ian Grant said:
Can certainly endorse the Forte Polywarmtone, (also sold as Adox, & Classic Arts, as well as Berger).
Ian

Is this really so? I know that Bergger is made in the Forte factory, but the Bergger paper I have is quite different from the Forte paper. I can't speak for Adox or Classic Arts, never having heard of them before, but I think the Bergger folks may be outsourcing their paper to Forte, but to their own specs.

Larry

Substitute for Afga Multicontrast Classic - Glossy ???

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