Stubborn RemJet on Fuji Eterna 250D

[SennaX]

I recently acquired 400f of Fuji Eterna 250D, it has a RemJet layer and I did what everyone else is doing, prewash it with 1 liter of warm water (40c) plus 1 tablespoon of Sodium Bicarbonate, agitate like making a martini for 1 min and then rinse with warm water it until nothing black comes out

The first time I developed it it worked with no issues at all, I loaded a 12 shot roll and did some test shots, worked perfectly, after that I loaded a 36 shot roll and tried again, this time I was able to remove like 50% of the remjet and It was next to impossible to remove the rest!, I tried to clean it with a wet sponge but unless I do it very aggressively it wont come of, I also tried using 2 tablespoons of Bicarbonate at 40c, same thing, leaving it longer on the remjet remover solution, same, increasing the temperature of the water to almost boiling and adding 3 tablespoons of bicarbonate, same thing. Also always sticks on the middle of the film, the sprockets come very clean.

Is there any way that maybe wile loading more frames I'm somehow compressing the roll to much inside the cassette and making the remjet stick more ??

I using Arm & Hammer baking Soda and doing it before processing in C41 from the colortec press kit on a Jobo CPE-3, the film was stored in a fresh place but no refrigerated, it is since now been refrigerated.

I also checked somewhere else that there is another more effective formula to remove it Borax + Sodium Sulfate + Sodium Hydroxide and that is supposed to be amazing.

I you guys have any suggestions of what I might be doing wrong, I'm all ears!!!!

I really want to use this film.

 

[Cholentpot]

I've used Eterna and always found it to be very easy to remove the Remjet. Recently I did a predevelop with Rodinal on 500T and the remjet came right off. Dunno what the mechanism that did it was but it worked.

 

[fdonadio]

I also checked somewhere else that there is another more effective formula to remove it Borax + Sodium Sulfate + Sodium Hydroxide and that is supposed to be amazing.

That’s the official Kodak formula for the prebath. Remjet seems to come off easier in a very alkaline solution. From the official Kodak PDF:

Borax (Decahydrated) 20.0 g
Sodium Sulfate (Anhydrous) 100 g
Sodium Hydroxide 1.0 g
Water to make 1L

That’s what I have used in the past and, with vigorous shaking, it will get all the RemJet out of the film. Wash the film and tank thoroughly before following with development.

 

[John Salim]

This is why Cinelab Film & Digital ( London ) refuse to process any Fujicolor negative now.

John S

 

[AgX]

A fellow of us used just Sodiumbicarbonate too and stated that the REM-Jet layer went off more easily with Fuji- than with Kodak-films.

 

[SennaX]

That’s the official Kodak formula for the prebath. Remjet seems to come off easier in a very alkaline solution. From the official Kodak PDF:

Borax (Decahydrated) 20.0 g
Sodium Sulfate (Anhydrous) 100 g
Sodium Hydroxide 1.0 g
Water to make 1L

That’s what I have used in the past and, with vigorous shaking, it will get all the RemJet out of the film. Wash the film and tank thoroughly before following with development.

Yes I will try that formula, seems the best, the only component missing for me is the Sodium Sulfate, hard to come by where I live (Ecuador) might have to import it.

 

[SennaX]

This is why Cinelab Film & Digital ( London ) refuse to process any Fujicolor negative now.

John S

Wow, might be some issue specifically with expired Fuji cinema film? Maybe with time the remjet gets harder to remove?

 

[SennaX]

That’s the official Kodak formula for the prebath. Remjet seems to come off easier in a very alkaline solution. From the official Kodak PDF:

Borax (Decahydrated) 20.0 g
Sodium Sulfate (Anhydrous) 100 g
Sodium Hydroxide 1.0 g
Water to make 1L

That’s what I have used in the past and, with vigorous shaking, it will get all the RemJet out of the film. Wash the film and tank thoroughly before following with development.

I was able to make the solution, but works almost the same, I warm the remjet removal solution to around 38c, fill the tank, let it sit for around 30sec, rinse many times with Water, still a lot of hard to remove stains of remjet, I haven't tried maybe hotter solution, I did try leaving the film soaking for 2 minutes and it made no difference, I'm having that issue with fuji 250D and 160t.

I'm pretty sure that I followed the formula as stated, is not too hard to make.

 

[fdonadio]

I warm the remjet removal solution to around 38c, fill the tank, let it sit for around 30sec, rinse many times with Water

You gotta shake it. A lot. Like you were making a Martini.

In the ECN process specifications, Kodak recommends a machine that physically scrubs the RemJet out. Since we can’t do that in a small tank, shaking vigorously is the only option.

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

I just processed a roll of Kodak 500T and can confirm that the official remjet pre-bath is more effective than a simple solution of bicarbonate. I didn't have any sodium sulfate either, but created the molar equivalent in situ using sodium bisulfate and potassium hydroxide. Bicarbonate might remove 2/3rds of the remjet at best, but this run was closer to 95%. I filled the tank with the pre-bath @ 80F, gave a gentle twirl of the reel, drained the still-clean prebath, refilled with water, inverted vigorously, and drained the jet black effluent. Essentially all the remjet seemed to be removed in the first wash. The base side still requires a wipe down but there's much less risk of the remnants becoming embedded in the emulsion.

My experience with remjet'd films is that the backing becomes more difficult to remove as the film ages. You might look into what techniques people have used to deal with the remjet on a much older/expired film like Kodachrome.

Edit: Some frames in the initial scans show the remaining contamination fairly well. Since the remjet is on the base side these could conceivably be rewashed now that they've been cut into more manageable strips of 6.

 

[AgX]

That’s the official Kodak formula for the prebath. Remjet seems to come off easier in a very alkaline solution. From the official Kodak PDF:

Borax (Decahydrated) 20.0 g
Sodium Sulfate (Anhydrous) 100 g
Sodium Hydroxide 1.0 g
Water to make 1L

That’s what I have used in the past and, with vigorous shaking, it will get all the RemJet out of the film. Wash the film and tank thoroughly before following with development.

Bellini offer a ECN prebath as 10L working solution pack.

For this bath as such they advise 27°C.

 

[brbo]

If 10L is too much:

https://ntphotoworks.com/product/remjet-removal-300ml-genuine-kodak-ecn2-pre-wash/

 

[AgX]

Well, that is not 300ml, but already 1L working solution.

The issue with the prebath is that it, to manufacturer saying, keeps only 2 weeks.
Those who only now and then use such prebath would go through this bottle in just 4 runs.

Of course, shipping working solution as Bellini seemingly do, is a bad idea...

 

[brbo]

No, that is 300ml that makes 1L of working solution. There is also no issue with shelf life of concentrate or working solution. I've been using it for years now. 1L of working solution is enough for at least 30 films and will work for years (Kodak's and Bellini's prebath both work equally well).

Since now Cinestill will also sell you only ECN-2 developer I usually buy only developer and still use the prebath from the last Bellini kit that I bought and that is now more than 2 or 3 years old. Prebath works as well as on the first day. It's now totally pink in colour, stored with increasing amount of air in the bottle. Indestructible.

I use it at room temp. Pour the prebath into the tank, wait a minute or two, pour it out and then multiple wash with cold water and vigorous agitation. Wipe off the rest of remjet after developing.