Strobes outdoors under harsh sunlight.

rayonline_nz · Mar 18, 2015

Just out of interest. I have gotten a tripod and it has open doors for fireworks, landscapes, sunrise etc. The next step I guess is studio strobes and to be used outdoors. So I am debating whether to go with something like a Lastolite medium softbox or studio strobes like a Profoto B2 or B1. They talk about over powering the sun. Under harsh light is studio lights even workable? The larger B1 is only 500W/sec for outdoors. Or do people still rather shoot the subject in the shade? Because if that is the case maybe is it better to use a Lastolite setup outdoors and then maybe stick with a AC powered light kit for indoors?

If one shot it with a speedlight flash with a 50x50cm Lastolite softbox then shot it with a Profoto 250W/sec B2 or even a B1 head what is the difference one would see either in the harsh light or if one moves in the shade? Under the sun would you still get harsh light landing on the subject's back/shoulders?

Cycler · Mar 18, 2015

I would regard unmodified studio strobes as being the ultimate in harsh light. Can't you get the required light modification using studio diffusers/reflectors? Living in rainy UK I wouldn't even dare take a studio flash outdoors.
In most cases it's really a job for a sun compass. Calculating where the sun will be; if the clouds dispersed.

snapguy · Mar 18, 2015

harsh

Maybe sunlight is "harsh" in Death Valley or my neck of the woods but in some places like Blightey it is lyrical. Photogs have used strobe or bulb flash for fill light used in conjunction with sunlight for eons. Why overpower the sun? There's a lot of handy, and free, light there to be utilized. I think you need to hit the books some more. And remember that "they" never know what they are talking about.

markbarendt · Mar 18, 2015

Strobes (whatever type) work great outdoors, actually anywhere you need to control the contrast between different subjects in a scene.

The effect of added light is cumulative so you don't need to over power the scene unless you want the background very dark.

hgaude · Mar 18, 2015

rayonline_nz said:
If one shot it with a speedlight flash with a 50x50cm Lastolite softbox then shot it with a Profoto 250W/sec B2 or even a B1 head what is the difference one would see either in the harsh light or if one moves in the shade? Under the sun would you still get harsh light landing on the subject's back/shoulders?

It sounds like you are talking about using the profoto without a light modifier, is this what you mean? If so, why? Its just another llight source; if you use a modifier on the speedlight, you would use some sort of equivalent on the profoto. Profoto's are awesome strobes, but you don't have to spend that much just to get wattseconds; many brands can get you in the 600-1200 ws range for less money. (The speedlight to profoto comparison made me wonder if money was part of the equation)

If you question is about power, then its about how direct the sun is that you are shooting in. If you are trying to overpower high noon, a speedlight usually won't cut it unless its a couple of feet from the subject. For a reasonable working distance, I've found I need at least 600ws for full sun. The less the direct sun the less the power needed of course.

removed account4 · Mar 18, 2015

snapguy said:
Maybe sunlight is "harsh" in Death Valley or my neck of the woods but in some places like Blightey it is lyrical. Photogs have used strobe or bulb flash for fill light used in conjunction with sunlight for eons. Why overpower the sun? There's a lot of handy, and free, light there to be utilized. I think you need to hit the books some more. And remember that "they" never know what they are talking about.

+1

what he said

RalphLambrecht · Mar 18, 2015

markbarendt said:
Strobes (whatever type) work great outdoors, actually anywhere you need to control the contrast between different subjects in a scene.

The effect of added light is cumulative so you don't need to over power the scene unless you want the background very dark.

a couple of thoughts:

1. rule of thumb for fill flash is30% or 1/3 stop over ambient to look natural and not overpowered
2.the best soft box is an umbrella. they are easier to set up and take down and give the same light. for less money.

ParkerSmithPhoto · Mar 18, 2015

rayonline_nz said:
Just out of interest. I have gotten a tripod and it has open doors for fireworks, landscapes, sunrise etc. The next step I guess is studio strobes and to be used outdoors.

A great way to start is with a white shoot through umbrella or a small, inexpensive soft box.

Get a light meter like the Sekonics that will show you the flash as a percentage of ambient. If you take a light reading and the meter shows 60%, that means 60% flash and 40% ambient.

Start with a cooperative model and run through some different scenarios with a camera that doesn't require film (ahem); it's the fastest and easiest way to learn. Right down the settings on an index card and have the subject hold it in the photo so you can see immediately what balance pleases you.

You can also work with simple setups such as metering the ambient light, then adding the strobe at one stop under the ambient, or underexpose the ambient one stop and have the flash one stop brighter.

bernard_L · Mar 18, 2015

How powerful your strobe needs to be depends on your top synch speed.

rule of thumb for fill flash is30% or 1/3 stop over ambient to look natural and not overpowered

With that amount, picture will definitely have a strobe-lit look (if by "ambient" you mean sunlit ambient); to attenuate the harshness of lighting (see OP) the amount of flash is, imo, 1 stop below sunlit ambiet, or less.

John Koehrer · Mar 18, 2015

bernard_L said:
How powerful your strobe needs to be depends on your top synch speed.

With that amount, picture will definitely have a strobe-lit look (if by "ambient" you mean sunlit ambient); to attenuate the harshness of lighting (see OP) the amount of flash is, imo, 1 stop below sunlit ambiet, or less.

+1 what he says for a natural looking subject.

MattKing · Mar 18, 2015

Practice first with reflectors instead of fill flash.

With that experience in hand, you will find that you will have a much better idea on how to employ fill flash as well.

rayonline_nz · Mar 19, 2015

Thanks for that.

It is to be used with a light modifier. Brolly or softbox probably a single light for outside due to logistics. Outdoors hence I mentioned the B2 or B1 rather than more cumbersome strobes. An Einstine light is like $450US and it's not that much different to a $1,000US light in the whole scheme of things with maybe better quality of light and consistency on the beter lights.

I have played around with a speedlight with a reflector and a shoot thru brolly and I might prefer the softbox for more light control and moving towards larger strobes. I shoot a group of people in a dark community hall and the recycling time and the overall flash wasn't that enough.

I thought about outdoors b/c friends would like their photograph taken indoors and outdoors. The reason I mentioned harsh light is that, we have been out in the botanical gardens and they just want a photo right their next to that lovely tree no matter on the light quality and also the reason I mentioned the Profoto B2 and B1 is that they are designed more for outdoor use with my casual shooting.

I am beginning to think maybe outside if 250 or 500W isn't going to be enough and worth the hassle maybe I should move the subject to the shade and use a speedlight / Lastolite softbox and just use the big strobes inside. And if in a blue moon they want some really nice photographs done I could maybe hire a juice box and just use my AC powered lights outside.

Your view

SLVR · Mar 19, 2015

I'm not at all personally experienced with strobes but I know that a lot of skateboard photographers will use flashes to fill in their frames even during the day. Maybe it would be worth it to look into their strobist info for some sort or reference?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/cherryrig/6074099454

https://www.flickr.com/photos/briangarson/1397641856

canuhead · Mar 23, 2015

I haven't used them but a colleague has the Profoto B1 and those can sync at high speeds so you can utilise wider apertures. If you have a *cough cough*, dslr, the you shod be good to go but I think you have to download software for Nikons.

Keep in mind that the B1 heads are strictly battery powered and can't be run off ac. If I had the money, I'd be looking at these.

CropDusterMan · Mar 23, 2015

rayonline,

Hey Mate, I'd recommend you rent some gear and try it out...I have used everything on the market
at one time or another and can tell you that Profoto is amazing gear...I especially like the Profoto Acute II's...
they have newer versions and all, but the Acutes are great. As far as lighting outside is concerned, it
is about understanding flash vs ambient, and controlling the two in relation to each other, along with
controlling the ratios of light between, ambient, key flash and the multiple possible layers of fill light.

First off, you have to decide how you want the ambient light to record...a stop under?...half a stop?
Once you determine that, you then work from key light down...for instance...if you decide that F250
@ F8.5 records the ambient the way you like, then the ket light will be set to output onto the subject
at about F8.5...you can then control the harshness of the flash vs shadow using fill light at slightly less
power...say, F5.6. Using backlights (such as the sun) can help separate the subject from the
background.

Light modifiers is another topic on its own...from a Beauty dish on the key, to softboxes and ring flash
for fill lights..it all comes down to preference and taste. One thing is to look at the current styles too...overpowered
ambient is a little dated these days. I may have gotten a little too in depth here...I suggest you keep it simple...
Softboxes, as much as I hate them, are an easy way to get into simple outdoor lighting. Just run a bunch
of power cords, or rent a Honda 1000W generator and use a Profoto Acute II 1200 Watt pack.

You can also do a TON with radio slaved Nikon and Canon flashes...tons of youtubes on that.

Chris G · Mar 24, 2015

MattKing said:
Practice first with reflectors instead of fill flash.

With that experience in hand, you will find that you will have a much better idea on how to employ fill flash as well.

+1

Or even forget about that experience, it has to be the most over done look in photography these days. One of these cheap 5 in 1 reflectors and some creativity... just smile when the flickrs ask for the Strobist info.

markbarendt · Mar 24, 2015

Chris G said:
+1

Or even forget about that experience, it has to be the most over done look in photography these days.

As with most techniques, and most mediums, it is more about how it is used, than if it is used.

Strobes outdoors under harsh sunlight.

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