street response?

c6h6o3 · Jul 13, 2004

Here in the Washington area the fascism is so blatant and pervasive that hardly a day goes by without our hearing of some fresh outrage against the very idea of personal liberty. The official mentality trickles down to infect nearly everyone. One of the reasons I photograph at the cathedrals and the monastery so much is that an artist can feel welcomed in those places. I'm treated like a criminal in most public places as soon as I set up a tripod.

One thing I've noticed: the one piece of equipment most likely to set them off is the tripod. I don't get hassled much at all when I'm using my Hasselblad handheld.

Flotsam · Jul 13, 2004

c6h6o3 said:
One thing I've noticed: the one piece of equipment most likely to set them off is the tripod. I don't get hassled much at all when I'm using my Hasselblad handheld.

That is what I find so curious. You would think that using a tripod would make you so flagrantly obvious that you wouldn't be particularly suspicious. And yet in almost all the similar stories that I've heard, the photographer was out in the open, using a tripod. If I was looking out for terrorists, it would be the guy sneaking around taking pictures surrepticiously with a camera phone or tiny digital that would catch my attention.

mobtown_4x5 · Jul 13, 2004

Yup, it's always the tripod.
This has nothing to do with real security concerns, people hate and resent anyone who has unacceptable hobbies or interests beyond television, cars, etc.

Matt

bjorke · Jul 14, 2004

Les McLean said:
.... jumped to the conclusion that we were a bunch of paedofiles, hence the demand to seize my computer.The pier security chief appeared and called the police...

Yes, everyone knows paedophiles travel in open public groups.

Ricardo41 · Jul 14, 2004

After 911 I kind of lost the knack for street photography. I teach college, and one of the classes I teach is on urban development, so I often use the pictures I take of urban environments. I generally feel extremely uncomfortable taking pictures of people without their explicit permission. I rarely use a zoom lens, basically, I shoot everything with a 50 mm and 85 mm prime.

I am currently in Berlin, working on a little mini-project called the "Blade-runnerization" of cities (e.g., how urban environments have increasingly been taken over by advertisement and huge flashing and moving billboards).

My approach is to ask permission before I take a picture, especially when taking pictures of official buildings (goverment, etc.). If I see a security guard, I go up to him and ask whether it's ok to snap away (rolling out my credentials if necessary).

I used to love taking pics of kids. But now? Forget about it! Luckily, I have 7 step sisters and brothers, so there are plenty of photo opportunities.

I also think it's important to respect people's private spheres (independent of what the law allows you to do or not), so clandestine photography is out of the question for me.

YMMV.

Ricardo

doughowk · Jul 14, 2004

Theatrics of Security

Harrassing photographers who are using tripods is part of the theatrics of security, putting on a show for bystanders & themselves. Instead of providing real security, our government acts or plays the role of vigilant protector - threat alerts, harrassment & incarceration of muslims, invasions - while intimidating critics with the Patriot Act. It has become an Orwellian world - Justice Dep't committing crimes against innocent citizens. What has happened to Freedom-loving Americans that we would give up hard-won freedoms for such theatrics?

Ricardo41 · Jul 14, 2004

doughowk said:
Harrassing photographers who are using tripods is part of the theatrics of security-

But you could suddenly pick up your tripod and start beating bystanders over the head with it, couldn't you?

Perhaps the camera/tripod set-up contains a sophisticated surface to ground laser-guided missile system, no?

ricardo

FrankB · Jul 14, 2004

Ricardo41 said:
But you could suddenly pick up your tripod and start beating bystanders over the head with it, couldn't you

Erm... You weren't actually at the waterfall shoot I mentioned, were you?

Flotsam · Jul 14, 2004

I seem to remember a story about one of our APUGers being hauled in by the police for threatening people with her tripod mounted, large format "cannon" and her spot meter "pistol".

I, for one, certainly feel much safer knowing that she was off the street for a couple of hours

crimsonvizion · Jul 14, 2004

I havent gotten through reading all replys yet but i wanted to add my bit. i have found when shooting the new somolian development here in maine that sugar coating, if played right not to look fake, can make a difference in some areas. the most helpful is editing the word "shoot" out of the vocabulary all together. just picture being in another culture with only mixed understanding of the language, and you catch out of all words a word of threat! and they want to use this equiptment on me!!?? taking the perspective of the subject matter opens up a whole new world of vision.

as far as authority goes, i figure most great street photography is either illegal or risky i was caught in a run down mill shooting this breathtaking (forgive me) shot of a decrepid staircase and when explaining to the guard he informed me that he spent most of his younger years photographing and never once risked his life or tresspassed. Can you imagine!!!

There, ive made my comment
~~

crimsonvizion · Jul 14, 2004

p.s. added on to the photographing of the somolians: its best not to ask to "take" a picture, it sounds like a threat or a demand. ask if you could make a photo of them or create. it is difficult to change your vocabulary but it makes a big difference!

Aggie · Jul 14, 2004

Flotsam said:
I seem to remember a story about one of our APUGers being hauled in by the police for threatening people with her tripod mounted, large format "cannon" and her spot meter "pistol".

I, for one, certainly feel much safer knowing that she was off the street for a couple of hours

Does this darn computer have a raspberry making sound option?

tilt-shift · Jul 14, 2004

thanks

Thanks all for the anecdotes; I will now carry a hard hat, clipboard and enough different ids (preferably with varying alias) to provide reading material while I underexpose another sheet of film. Thanks again jeff

jd callow · Jul 14, 2004

In Detroit I am mostly ignored. Oddly the folks who live in the city will only acknowledge you (as in "hey") and on a rarer occasion will ask "what's it for?" or to have their picture taken.

In the Detroit suburbs I have had the police called on me. 3 cars 1 unmarked and 5 cops, this was before 9/11.

Most places in the US are about the same. They will ask why or jump in front of the camera and mug. One question that is repeatedly asked is "what are you doing?" As I stand there with my head under a dark t-shirt/cloth or my face stuck to the back of my mamiya with camera equipment strewn all over.

In Belarus and Romania (more the former then the latter) they would hide or get very uncomfortable. No one in Belarus said anything to me. In Romania I got a few questions mostly "Why."

In England they ignored me entirely, as if I was invisible or they were to taken aback by the intrusion to even comment.

In Paris I was treated with disdain, but no comments.

In Wales I was asked:

if I take dirty pictures too (this by a young attractive girl who giggled a lot),

Why I didn't use digital

I was told I was breaking the law

Another tried to steal my camera, whilst in the middle of a busy street in front of many witnesses.

One women told me I had to shoot her friend who was a 'real' model. Her friend had already positioned herself in front of the camera. They were both serious and adamant. When I told the 'model' that I wasn't that type of photographer and that there wasn't enough light, she told me that she knew all about photography and that I obviously wasn't a real photographer. She went on to berate me, my equipment and to tell me again that she was a 'real' model. At this point I asked her which porn site.

In Canada they will say excuse me if they think they are getting too close or if they step in front of the camera when I am composing. They also nod a lot (as do the Detroiters). In my experience they are by far and away the most polite and considerate to photographers. On a rare occasion a Canadian or American will or try to light conversation about photography or the subject i'm shooting.

Mostly I am left alone. My wife says I am not very approachable and I certainly don't 'reach out' to people when I'm shooting.

John McCallum · Jul 14, 2004

Actually in New Zealand, people seem pretty polite generally as well. Sometimes they get very curious, just kinda want to be involved somehow. They seem to wonder if you are doing something that could be famous (we don't get much of that that, so probably crave it a bit). I find being focussed on the work and looking constantly busy seems to help - gets the shot and people assume you're 'meant' to be there.

mrcallow said:
One women told me I had to shoot her friend who was a 'real' model. Her friend had already positioned herself in front of the camera. .....

An alternative could have been to take her on and ..."Yup that's good ...now back a bit .....that's it great ...... back a bit further ....... now just jump between those parked cars ..."

mrcallow said:
Mostly I am left alone. My wife says I am not very approachable and I certainly don't 'reach out' to people when I'm shooting.

Recon that's a good way to be for street photography. Barking loudly when they get to close works.

Gary892 · Jul 14, 2004

The only problem with this approach, the intruder could be a fat old balding guy, like me, now that is something you don't want to see.
I like your response though.

Gary

c6h6o3 · Jul 14, 2004

John McCallum said:
Actually in New Zealand, people seem pretty polite generally as well.

That's why New Zealand is one of the countries to which I'll consider emigrating when the time comes.

Polite people = probably not a fascist police state.

rjs003 · Jul 14, 2004

The strangest encounters I've had to date was in the Adirondack mountains while I was photographing a small lake in one of the state parks. I was stopped by a game warden and questioned if I might be fishing out of season. I guess a Yashica TLR on a tripod does look somewhat like a fishing pole. After this encounter I moved along the lake shore to take more pictures where I encountered a person fishing, who questioned me as to what I was doing. When I told him his reply was ," don't be taking my picture." My response to him was that I charge when I take pictures of people. About ten minutes later the game warden showed up and handed him a ticket for fishing out of season. Supposed I could have told him the game cop was in the area.

John McCallum · Jul 14, 2004

rjs003 said:
..." don't be taking my picture." My response to him was that I charge when I take pictures of people......

Ha ha - nice one. Didn't see any moose?

Gary892 said:
The only problem with this approach, the intruder could be a fat old balding guy, like me, now that is something you don't want to see.

- nothing wrong with that.

Snapper · Jul 15, 2004

Hehe - very timely - there's an ad just starting to be shown on UK TV for the new Canon 300D/D*g*tal Rebel, where a crowd of hundreds in New York all stand back out of the way in awe as a young photographer takes a street snap with his smart, new d*g*tal camera. This is why we are getting the wrong reaction on the street - we don't have the right gear!

Matej Maceas · Jul 15, 2004

My experiences so far have been good. I'm yet to take a LF camera out on the streets, but with my Kiev 88, I tend to get two kinds of reactions (apart from being ignored): curious looks when handholding, and people stopping so as not to walk into the shot when I set up the tripod and everything. The Kiev is not that big, but I guess to the average passerby it does make me look like I know what I'm doing, and that I'm supposed to be doing it

One thing I've wanted to do lately was park the car on the side of a busy road, set up the tripod with the Kiev in front of it, and see how long it will take before the traffic programme on the radio announces a new speed radar

Chuckiesinluv · Jul 15, 2004

First get a very el Cheap o camera, Like any new Minolta entry level, under $200 these days. Look stupid, do not carry bag, and shoot away at ANYTHING you might see-including people. Street shooting is a great pleasure. I have been threatened a few time for shooting Bikinis at Daytona Beach Florida. I apologize and move on. If confronted nicely I will be courteous to them-otherwise I keep going and continue to look like a beginner. Except for my graying hair I still look likwe a beginner...(lol)

TPPhotog · Jul 15, 2004

My experiences have also been good so far. The only time I seem to get asked any questions is when I'm shooting at markets and people are worried that I might be working for the tax office lol

Happily I also get published by one of the local newspapers, so as soon as I say weather I'm shooting for the paper or my own collection that's the end of any possible objections.

With the only person who did strongly object, I pointed out the law and said that if she objected then she could complain to the paper but as I freelance I doubt that they would care, plus as she was at a demonstration she was more likely to see herself on the regional TV news and that a picture in the local paper was nothing in comparison.

By being approached I've made several good friends and also picked up some commissions for portraits and weddings.

doughowk · Jul 16, 2004

As reported in the Seattle Times the student/photographer was racially profiled. So maybe the people reporting no problem with taking pictures in US happen to be white. Just a thought.

Sjixxxy · Jul 16, 2004

TPPhotog said:
My experiences have also been good so far. The only time I seem to get asked any questions is when I'm shooting at markets and people are worried that I might be working for the tax office lol

That reminds me of an instance a few years ago when we where shooting on a sidewalk with a big DV camera on a tri-pod. Landlord of a build across that street came out and asked what we where doing, and we told him. Then he say "Ok, its just that these people fixing up my building aren't OSHA certified."

I should have told him a little picture of Ben Franklin will make sure nobdy ever finds out.

street response?

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