streaks puzzle

Alexis M · Apr 30, 2012

Ok Ive seen some threads about this around but none helped. I keep getting streaks in my negatives:

-they are often between the frames
-mostly on the first half of the roll
-only on my 35mm rolls, on both my AE-1 and Nikon FE
-I got much less streaks yesterday when I left only one spool in the tank whilst developing one roll but then again this was a 24 exposure instead of a 36.
-agitation 3 times during the first 30 sec with taping then once every 30 with a tap.

I feel it has to be developing because I have no streaks on the roll of velvia I had developed for me but I cant remember if this was before or after I changed the light seals.

So if its in the first half of the roll and I get no streaks on my 120 rolls (not as many turns on the spool?) then it must have to do with the developing and the inner parts of the spool.

Need some ideasI lost some nice shots and its starting to get to me.

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 30, 2012

Exactly how do you agitate?

Can you show a scan of your negatives with and without the problem?

Alexis M · Apr 30, 2012

I turn the Paterson tank over and back slowly.I tried adding a slight twisting motion to that yesterday. I’ll get some scans out later.

Photo Engineer · Apr 30, 2012

What is your post development process like? The streaks can take place there too!

PE

Alexis M · Apr 30, 2012

I use rodinal 1:25 and develop as mentioned

I then put in the stop and agitate once

Then the fixing is done by pouring in the fix and agitating the same way as I do the development.

Then I rinse the film and wash it with a drop of dish soap.

I see the streaks after taking it out of the tank…

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 30, 2012

I'll wait until after we see the scans to make further comments, but want to emphasize two things:

- The importance of getting the film into developer quickly, and how important it is to get the agitation during the first 30 seconds right. Ideally we should lower the film into the developer, and not pouring the developer into the tank. Sometimes this isn't possible, but if it is, this way the entire film gets submerged into developer uniformly and simultaneously.

- Developer volume. If you completely fill the tank, the developer has no way of circulating inside the tank when you agitate, which completely negates the reason for agitating in the first place (to get fresh and unused developer in contact with the emulsion uniformly). If you have too little, the developer moves around too quickly, and you risk surge marks from the perforations along the edge of 35mm film.
A happy medium is best, and you must always use the same volume for consistency. Measure, with as many empty reels as will fit in the tank, how much water the tank holds when filled to the brim. Then deduct an appropriate amount so that the reels are still covered, plus a little safety margin. (If you use a two reel tank, and want to develop only one roll, still put in one empty reel to fill the tank).

- Thomas

jp498 · Apr 30, 2012

It may not be the main issue, but it could contribute if your stop is weak. You need more than one agitation for stop. 30s of agitation would be better, then let it sit for another 30, or even agitate for the whole minute if you feel like it.

You should not have any streaks in a patterson tank if you use the right amount of chemicals and agitate properly; I've used them for 20+ years. They fill fast, drain fast, work well. People's primary put-down is that they prefer metal reels; patterson's can't be reloaded wet and have a different technique for loading than traditional metal reels.

Alexis M · Apr 30, 2012

What’s a mystery to me is that I never got a single streak with 120 film using exactly the same process….what’s different? The puncture holes, the length and width? I get PERFECTLY developed negs with 120 but streaks with 135, all the time.

JP: One minute? i only ever stopped for 10 seconds !! oups

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 30, 2012

Alexis M said:
Whats a mystery to me is that I never got a single streak with 120 film using exactly the same process.whats different? The puncture holes, the length and width? I get PERFECTLY developed negs with 120 but streaks with 135, all the time.

JP: One minute? i only ever stopped for 10 seconds !! oups

Yeah, usually people do fine with 35mm and have problems with uneven development of 120 film.

I'm sort of 'expecting' the streaks to coincide with the sprocket holes, which is usually a sign of too little developer in the tank. But we'll see.

Photo Engineer · Apr 30, 2012

All of the above are good comments on technique. In particular, the stop should be about 30" to 1', not less. And you need good agitation in the stop.

Just as a side comment, I have heard that for equal amounts of surface area, 35mm film carries over more solution more unevenly than 120 film due to the sprocket holes. This has interested me, but I have never seen it as a problem, but thinking about it here, I think that if the stop is not adequate, it can push you over the edge for streaking.

The type of fix is not mentioned so I will add that this problem would be worse with an alkaline or neutral fix than with an acid fix that can act as a stop bath in some ways.

Also, dish soap is prone to causing streaks, especially with 35mm film for the same reason above. The final rinse is trapped in the sprocket holes and when the bead beaks during drying, the small droplets of dish soap / water run out and down the film.

PE

Alexis M · Apr 30, 2012

I will increase the stoping next time. but i always figured the stop to be almost optional...as some rinse instead and then go straight to the fix. I use ilfosol rapid fixer.

cliveh · Apr 30, 2012

My bet is on the dish soap. Why are you using it anyway?

Photo Engineer · Apr 30, 2012

Even with a rinse step, it is about 30" to 1' with running water and agitation.

Too quick into the hypo and you can cause streaks and blemishes.

PE

Alexis M · Apr 30, 2012

Ok this is what i mean by streaks...click on the image below

Old-N-Feeble · Apr 30, 2012

Looks like a film canister light leak to me.

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 30, 2012

Old-N-Feeble said:
Looks like a film canister light leak to me.

Yes, and that explains why only the center part of the tank has these streaks as well, since it's the part you load onto the reel first, i.e. the part closest to the canister light trap.

Advice: load and unload in subdued light, and store exposed rolls in the dark, such as the Ilford black canisters.

Alexis M · Apr 30, 2012

my paterson tank has a light leak?

Photo Engineer · Apr 30, 2012

Something has a light leak. It could be the center trap of the tank is leakkng, or the film cannister(s) leak, but whatever it is is a light leak.

You see, your problem description was vague enough that until you posted the negative scans, we could not make an accurate judgment.

Now, we are closer to the problem.

PE

Ian Grant · Apr 30, 2012

That has nothing to do with the processing or tank, it's happening earlier. A crack in the tank would leak developer and the foggings too close, maybe a camera back light leak. That's more likely.

Ian

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 30, 2012

Alexis M said:
my paterson tank has a light leak?

No. The film canister.

kevs · Apr 30, 2012

Hi Alexis,

I'm with Ian; that looks like an in-camera light leak to me; check the light-tight seals on the backs of your cameras - you say you've changed them recently so that could well be the problem. It's odd that it moves positions between frames - perhaps there's a leak that only occurs under certain circumstances, like sunlight hitting the camera at a certain angle.

If it happens with both cameras, either you're very unlucky or the problem's elsewhere. You say it didn't happen at all on a roll of Velvia which makes me wonder whether you're bulk-loading your Pan F Plus. But the edge numbers suggest otherwise. It might be worthwhile exposing a roll of C-41 under sunny conditions, having it developed and seeing what happens.

By the way, the use of dish soap in the final rinse has been deprecated in favour of wetting agent.

Cheers,
kevs.

Ian Grant · Apr 30, 2012

Kevs probably hit the nail on the head a poor cassette light seal. I've almost given up on 35mm after ratherv a long time and I only saw issues like this very early in my processing, I always paid a lot of attention to the cassettes I reloaded after that.

Ian

Photo Engineer · Apr 30, 2012

Most likely the film cannister(s). However, the tanks light trap could be leaking allowing a band of light to fog the film.

PE

Sirius Glass · Apr 30, 2012

Instead of soap use Kodak PhotoFlo or an equivalent. After water, PhotoFlo is the cheapest photo chemical that you can get and a bottle last forever.

Alexis M · Apr 30, 2012

Every either 35 mm canister i have used from fuji, ilford and kodak was defective or the job i did rebuilding the seals on my camera back is bad...sounds like i have an answer. Thanks so much guys!! very appreciated. I'll redo the seals and come back to report once i have some new results.

streaks puzzle

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